New Freeview HD hardware: eXtra Terrestrial Freeview HD tuner

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18 posts

Geek

#188772 11-Jan-2009 13:19

as stated earlier, V4.1031; V1.05 is exactly the version I am running with hardly any issues.....interesting......wonder if mine was from a 'good batch'... ha ha ?!!?

InspectorGadget

208 posts

Master Geek

#188778 11-Jan-2009 13:26

rizzo: as stated earlier, V4.1031; V1.05 is exactly the version I am running with hardly any issues.....interesting......wonder if mine was from a 'good batch'... ha ha ?!!?

Same versions here. Hardly any issues. Just really the drifting clock and the long awaited PVR update.

smac

338 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 40

#188797 11-Jan-2009 14:52

I keep seeing this phrase "hardly any issue". Doesn't cut it for me: if I'm going to drop a couple or few hundred on an electronic device, it had better work with no issues, or it's money back. More and more this approach seems to be seen as "asking too much" which I find truely bizarre.

InspectorGadget

208 posts

Master Geek

#188856 11-Jan-2009 21:30

smac: I keep seeing this phrase "hardly any issue". Doesn't cut it for me: if I'm going to drop a couple or few hundred on an electronic device, it had better work with no issues, or it's money back. More and more this approach seems to be seen as "asking too much" which I find truely bizarre.

Agreed, to a certain extent.

However, I suspect most of the members of this board tend to be early adopters or people who regularly play with bleeding edge kit, and generally expect there to be a few quirks with this kind of product at the beginning of its' rollout. What we do expect is that when we point out flaws, that they are addressed in a reasonable period of time. We generally see a new technology and tend to be the kind of people who pay the money and get 95% of what it says on the box, and are happy if the other 5% comes shortly afterwards.

You've heard of the expression "Keeping up with the Jones's" Well . . . . . . . . . . We are the Jones's.

Your frame of thought tends to be that of a mainstream consumer. "Hardly any issue" then be comes a personal question of how may flaws you are willing to tollerate, and every product has flaws. Some are never addressed.
Is a poorly designed GUI but with no resets OK? or a spectacular GUI, picture and rock solid OS, but very quirky EPG?

Our main gripe at the moment with the ExtraTerrestrial STB is that we are ponting out problems and they are not being fixed, and promised PVR updates not appearing on multiple occasions when they have been promised.

Freeview is in its very early days yet and the products on the market are immature. Even the Freeview branded kit is . . .ahem . . . average. The only two Freeview TVs that I have purchased and I have been satisfied with have been a Sony and a Panasonic with built in DVB-T cards. These were purchased for non-geek people. The STBs are in general not very good at this stage.

INSGDT

smac

338 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 40

#188863 11-Jan-2009 22:06

Gotta disgree a little here. I would also class myself as an 'early adopter'. My belief in getting what you pay for is not mainstream or otherwise, it comes from being a consumer.

When a process is bleeding edge or in early development, then that's what beta releases and limited scale releases are for, targeted user reviews etc etc As soon as somebody packages a product for retail, sticks their brand on it and says "please pay me money to own this" then no, it is not a trial, it is the final product. It may get better over time, but it sure as hell better do what it was designed to do. The consumer market, complete with mainstream big scale marketing campains is NOT the place for product testing and development.

I am involved in a very large scale and high profile software development enterprise and if we used the production environment for testing purposes we'd be down the road faster than you can say "working as intended".

If you (or anyone else here) choose to be ok with being consumer guinea pigs then that's your choice obviously. However if you do so then I think you should expect very little in the way of "rights" when it comes to the manufacturer's responsiveness. If they have stuck a sub-standard product on the shelf, and you've bought it, and rather than demanding it work you're saying "it's OK, keep my money, but please listen to my feedback on your product and improve it". This is a very mixed message to be giving them. In fact there is no message (to the supplier)....you are dealing with an importer who may or may not have a direct relationship with the actual supplier. A missed release date given to you by a reseller can not be seen as a committment by the supplier. Who knows if they're working on PVR? Who knows if they had anything to do with those earlier dates given? Firstly the importer should be quite clearly stating "the supplier is saying it will be ready by...." not "we will have it ready by....". However secondly, the supplier should not be held accountable for anything the reseller has promised. Who knows whether any of the feedback being given to the importer is actually going to the supplier?

All these points are just examples of why it's a really messy situation, and why I, as a consumer, expect goods I purchase to work as intended, without exception. As soon as you make 'early adoption' a reason for a sliding scale of acceptability, things get very murky. If there are issues with the product, I really hope they get sorted, (and I do applaud the efforts being made here). Hell I may well buy one yet! But if it don't work, it won't be living with me for long

dodgemnz

51 posts

Master Geek

#188865 11-Jan-2009 22:34

Well im not a kinda leading edge geek! Im interested in having an extra few channels to view and a clearer picture.... just like advertised on tv! Is this to much to ask ??? It seems in this moderm world product testing is done by the consumer after purchase rather than before. I dont see how they can market products like this that dont work like they should out of the box. I dont have an issue if items that may be additional at a later date like the PVR fuction are not being delivered as quickly as one would like but to me the basic product has flaws that are far more important to resolve than some extra functionality that a few may use.

If i was a keep up with the joneses type of person im sure i would have tried all the STB brands by now and onto my 5th tv and getting bigger screens each time i increase my mortgage!
I am however prepared to upgrade my equipment and have extra channels for the family to watch so i have no problems replacing the aerial and cabling that to be fair was over 10 years old and in need of upgrade for the digital services now being offered. But im not really prepared to compromise if the items dont work as they should and no consumer should have to either which is why we have CGA to protect our hard earned cash. I have taken a couple of large trading stores to small claims over the years and ive won every time becuse most of them have little respect for consumers and often do not know the product they are selling and the salesmans word is what is tested in the courts under the act.

I purchased the ET as i was led to believe it was one of the best on the market and much better than the Zinwell ..... as yet im not sure of either and it is certainly not as it should be. I have read somewhere that aprox 160,000 STB's have been sold in NZ, so are all these people experiencing teething problems with there equipment or is it just the transmission network that has poor signal problems???

Samsung

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InspectorGadget

208 posts

Master Geek

#188866 11-Jan-2009 22:43

smac: Gotta disgree a little here. I would also class myself as an 'early adopter'. My belief in getting what you pay for is not mainstream or otherwise, it comes from being a consumer.

When a process is bleeding edge or in early development, then that's what beta releases and limited scale releases are for, targeted user reviews etc etc As soon as somebody packages a product for retail, sticks their brand on it and says "please pay me money to own this" then no, it is not a trial, it is the final product. It may get better over time, but it sure as hell better do what it was designed to do. The consumer market, complete with mainstream big scale marketing campains is NOT the place for product testing and development.

I am involved in a very large scale and high profile software development enterprise and if we used the production environment for testing purposes we'd be down the road faster than you can say "working as intended".

If you (or anyone else here) choose to be ok with being consumer guinea pigs then that's your choice obviously. However if you do so then I think you should expect very little in the way of "rights" when it comes to the manufacturer's responsiveness. If they have stuck a sub-standard product on the shelf, and you've bought it, and rather than demanding it work you're saying "it's OK, keep my money, but please listen to my feedback on your product and improve it". This is a very mixed message to be giving them. In fact there is no message (to the supplier)....you are dealing with an importer who may or may not have a direct relationship with the actual supplier. A missed release date given to you by a reseller can not be seen as a committment by the supplier. Who knows if they're working on PVR? Who knows if they had anything to do with those earlier dates given? Firstly the importer should be quite clearly stating "the supplier is saying it will be ready by...." not "we will have it ready by....". However secondly, the supplier should not be held accountable for anything the reseller has promised. Who knows whether any of the feedback being given to the importer is actually going to the supplier?

All these points are just examples of why it's a really messy situation, and why I, as a consumer, expect goods I purchase to work as intended, without exception. As soon as you make 'early adoption' a reason for a sliding scale of acceptability, things get very murky. If there are issues with the product, I really hope they get sorted, (and I do applaud the efforts being made here). Hell I may well buy one yet! But if it don't work, it won't be living with me for long

And that is where our respective points of view differ slightly. Some people, realising that this is an early product, are prepared to wait for a limited period of time for fixes. Others arent.

YES! It needs to do what is says on the box as a minimum, or you are simply on breech of the CGA. No questions asked.

In short, if you are a retailer of an early product like this, it better work out of the box, or you BL00DY WELL better have a fix in place quick smart or face a flood of punters demanding a refund.

INSGST

FPR

176 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 25

#188881 12-Jan-2009 02:02

My thoughts,

DVB-T has been on air since April 2008. 11 months now.

The ET box has been on sale since July? 08 (when this thread was started) 7 Months now.

7 months is more then enough of a time frame to fix these few problems the ET box has.

Thankfully I don't have The rebooting problem some people have complained of &

I can’t comment on the optical out problem since my amp doesn’t have it.

BUT I do have

1) The box freezing up once or twice a week,

2) The clock still lose's time (which was supposed to fixed in the last firmware upgrade)

3) Random two channel jump when using ch + or ch - on the remote.

4) Picture always goes to Full Screen after using the EPG. (I have stopped using the EPG because of this)

I was showing a friend on Saturday how clear the picture was with the ET box & my LCD TV compared to the analogue

Picture he has on his LCD & guess what, it froze while changing channel. The banner came up but it didn’t change the channel. Had to do a full reboot. His comment was Great picture, but I WON'T be getting one if that happens a couple times a week.

I have not & will not recommend one of these Boxes's while it STILL has these on going problems.

As I said After at least 7 months on the market These problems should have been fixed by now!

How can you trust the pvr to record a program (let a lone a whole series) when it can't even keep the correct time &

Randomly freeze's up.

Come on Pete, please get it sorted.

smac

338 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 40

#188890 12-Jan-2009 07:30

Come on Pete, please get it sorted.

Herein lies the problem...this isn't up to Pete to fix. It's up to Pete to repair, replace, or refund. End of story. Any expectation on, or promise by the importer to deliver upgrades to the unit is, in my opinion, asking for trouble.

I haven't actually managed to find a full description of the clock fault, however (depending on what it's doing) it won't necessarily be possible to fix with a software upgrade.......

robjg63

4161 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1427

Subscriber

#188923 12-Jan-2009 10:38

I haven't actually managed to find a full description of the clock fault, however (depending on what it's doing) it won't necessarily be possible to fix with a software upgrade.......

I'd have to say that as far as I am concerned - the clock is the only thing that has been fixed!

I still get lots of pixelation and box lockups, box crashes when going into the guide etc - But the clock has been fine (unless the box spontaneously reboots and looses the time). I would suspect maybe its not the software thats at fault in this case.

You can probably test it - Put the box into standby. Monitor it periodically for around an hour. If the clock is still accurate, then the 'recent' firmware update has fixed the clock issue - because it certainly went significantly out of whack in an hour before that update.

If the box reboots the clock restarts from 12.00 until you turn it on and it gets the time (apparently) from the menu feed.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

Jaxson

8172 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1332

Trusted

#188928 12-Jan-2009 10:58

Clock has improved on mine, but leave it on standby for a longer period of time and it still wanders.

To comment on the massive comments above, I think the ET was a less polished option we were prepared to investigate initially as the only alternative was the Zinwell at $499+ with the ET at $299. On sale the DSE is now $249 - $299 with hdmi cable, so I think the market has changed now and these initial issues with the ET are no longer acceptable. They need to be addressed, -if it is possible/ie software issues.

If indeed the problems are signal related, this simply means that the ET can not handle a signal that other units can work with. Taking the unit anywhere for testing is hard too, because most of the problems go away when you turn it off. If your aerial/cable setup is not sufficient for this unit, is that your problem really when another unit could function ok with it. Any cost savings in the unit are quickly lost if you have to replace your infrastructure.

I don't think freeview got rushed to market too soon, sbiddle has been running his pc solution right from the start. Possibly units got sold to the public too soon, but with the ability to offer updates this is not that bad either, assuming the updates come in a timely manor and do actually fix issues correctly.

I use my ET every day and any pixelation/repeat screens/channel banner freezes etc are corrected by a reboot. I only use the 5.1 output for TV3 shows and suffer very few dropouts on this, though all other channels suffer worse dropouts. I like the picture and remember the price at the time, but I don't recommend it to others anymore. This may change if these issues are fixed and the PVR ability actually arrives and is any good.

HP

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broozm

48 posts

Geek

ID Verified

#189078 12-Jan-2009 20:59

I know its a bit defeatist - but to get back to "real" tv, all I have to do is grab the other remote and flick off AV and onto 1, 2, 3, 4, Maori, Local channel and even Prime :0 So all I'm missing (worth mentioning) is 6 and 7, the epg, and the promise of PVR. Perhaps we should've waited a bit longer - but then one can always wait for cheaper, better, faster and never try it..

Deev8

481 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5

#189320 13-Jan-2009 19:09

broozm: So all I'm missing (worth mentioning) is 6 and 7, the epg, and the promise of PVR. Perhaps we should've waited a bit longer - but then one can always wait for cheaper, better, faster and never try it..

In one sense the most significant thing you are missing by going back to analogue is 16:9 aspect ratio broadcasts.

JJM

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#189334 13-Jan-2009 20:13

Blimey, I wish I had come across this forum before I leapt in and brought my eXtra HD Tuner. Not that I suspect that its any worse than other units, but I hadn't realised that dropouts, pixellation and audio freezes were all to be expected from Freeview. I bought the line that it would all be perfect. I can see the transmitter from my window but still have the same problems most of you experience. From the forum it looks like I should
1. Keep the unit cool
2. Reboot regularly
Any more hints for improvement would be appreciated. Meantime my wife is convinced we have been sold a pup.

Cheers

dodgemnz

51 posts

Master Geek

#189385 13-Jan-2009 23:10

My sentiments exactly JJM!!

TV3 is a joke the rest are okish, but not what was expected. Occasional reboots and now i have a double channel change first time today

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