When is a sub-floor not a sub-floor?

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › When is a sub-floor not a sub-floor?

Jeeves

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#258659 15-Oct-2019 12:30

We are selling our house, and engaged a property inspector to do an inspection so we could present it to potential buyers.

In it, it was stated that 'undetected Significant Faults or Defects such as Structural Damage and Conditions Conducive to Structural Damage was considered to be Moderate-High'.

We queried this, as we know the house and didn't agree with the moderate-high rating of potential serious defects. The builder replied that they use a points system, and where areas of the house are not accessible, you get points. More points, higher the risk. Fair enough.

We were given points due to the roof access which is fine - it's really tight up there. But the thing that tipped us from a 'low' score to the 'moderate-high' score was we were given points for not being able to access the sub-floor.

The house is on a concrete slab....

So we were marked down because he couldn't bring in a house moving company and excavation equipment to lift up the house and dig out from beneath it so he could see below our concrete slab.

I questioned him on this and said surely this should not be applicable .... crickets.

So, am I wrong in thinking that we should not be penalised for the inspector not being able to access below our concrete slab?

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#2337364 15-Oct-2019 12:33

I wouldn't trust a vendor supplied building report anyway. Information sure, but wouldn't base my purchase on it!

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timmmay

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#2337368 15-Oct-2019 12:37

That seems ridiculous.

Bung

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#2337396 15-Oct-2019 13:16

A lot of slabs also require pile support now. Maybe your area does and in absence of further detail you get marked down because it's an unknown.

mdf

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#2337413 15-Oct-2019 13:44

Can you see the slab or is it covered in floor coverings? Could be as simple as but covering "I can't see under the carpet and therefore cannot confirm or deny the presence of a great big crack in the slab."

wellygary

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#2337415 15-Oct-2019 13:47

Jeeves:

So, am I wrong in thinking that we should not be penalised for the inspector not being able to access below our concrete slab?

What the report is saying is , they are unable to determine the status of the slab, so from their POV it is an unknown,

Now, while you can say "its there" "its fine" ... there is no way to tell if its got the right reinforcing/insulation/thickness, whether it was properly compacted before it was poured etc...

The report you are having done is all about liability, and its clear that the inspection crowd don't want to assume any risk and will basically mark down anything on their list they can't check...

I would show them the door...

mattwnz

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#2337417 15-Oct-2019 13:51

Bung: A lot of slabs also require pile support now. Maybe your area does and in absence of further detail you get marked down because it's an unknown.

That would also be impossible to check visually. They should really check the plans at the council and that it got signed off.

mattwnz

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#2337418 15-Oct-2019 13:53

mentalinc:

I wouldn't trust a vendor supplied building report anyway. Information sure, but wouldn't base my purchase on it!

I also think it is risky as a vendor to provide one.But real estate agents seem to suggest it as it makes it easier for them. Better for buyers to get one done IMO, and they should get one done as well anyway. .

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Disrespective

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#2337453 15-Oct-2019 14:53

Note this recent article: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/115950286/nine-years-on-and-does-christchurch-have-a-still-unfolding-house-foundation-problem

evnafets

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#2337484 15-Oct-2019 15:53

Also https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12276189

Basically an article about imaging technology looking at what lies in/beneath the concrete and not liking what they are finding...

Handle9

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#2337504 15-Oct-2019 16:29

I'd be challenging them in this in a big way. To me it's entirely acceptable to say the subfloor/roof is inaccessible and unable to be assessed.

They must be able to identify the potential serious defects. If they can't they are making things up and guessing which is entirely unacceptable.

linw

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#2337944 16-Oct-2019 09:09

Just been through this process. There is a huge amount of butt covering in these reports. And if your house is built before 1990, they also add a scare about the possibility of there being asbestos problems.

Also thought it a bit unfair assessing a 1970's house against todays standards.

With regard to letting the prospective buyers get their own report, the $800 or so cost would be off-putting. And given ours took about 4 hours, I would have been hacked off with multiples of this experience!

In short, it is a bloody stressful experience!

Good luck with your sale.

Jeeves

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#2338019 16-Oct-2019 11:27

Appreciate the replies.

Yes, we fully expect serious buyers to have their own inspection done. The 'I don't trust vendor reports' attitude is missing the point. It's

A) Showing that we are not afraid of reports/have nothing to hide

B) Gives confidence to buyers that if they do commit to spend $4-700 on a report that there is less likely a chance something will show up which results in them not placing an offer and wasting their money/time.

We have also supplied LIM and property files. It's all about reducing barriers to offers - if we are up against other similar houses who haven't done this prep-work, it puts us in a better position for the sake of a few hundred $. The agent didn't suggest we do all this - we did it before we even engaged them.

Also for what it's worth we have no bias to the builder - we literally went on builders crack and chose the first guy that replied. Wouldn't know him from a bar of soap. Wouldn't recommend him either (There are other facets about the report we're not happy with, including his building age estimate being out by 20 years)!

The point about not being able to see the sub floor due to carpets etc is a valid one. The reply from the builder was, quote, "Sub floor space. As it is slab on ground we can't inspect that area = 3
points". It may be he was referring to not being able to view it from 'above' - but he wasn't clear. He hasn't replied to us since which doesn't help his explanation.

At least the moisture test came back as dry as a bone...

Bung

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#2338087 16-Oct-2019 12:42

Jeeves:
Also for what it's worth we have no bias to the builder - we literally went on builders crack and chose the first guy that replied. Wouldn't know him from a bar of soap. Wouldn't recommend him either (There are other facets about the report we're not happy with, including his building age estimate being out by 20 years)!

If you are going to rely on the report yourself you are probably better to use an inspection specialist rather than a random builder.
Even the leaky building era was long enough ago that some builders today wouldn't have been born. The house next door was built by a builder in his 50s but it was a late career change for him so he only had about 10 years experience. A neighbour is a builder in his 70s with about 55 years experience still building houses but you probably won't find many like that who know where all the bodies are buried.

Batman

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#2338110 16-Oct-2019 13:51

I'd type out some suitable wording which does not expose him to legal risk and ask him politely to change it to those words.

Fred99

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#2338125 16-Oct-2019 14:41

mattwnz:

Bung: A lot of slabs also require pile support now. Maybe your area does and in absence of further detail you get marked down because it's an unknown.

That would also be impossible to check visually. They should really check the plans at the council and that it got signed off.

There were places exposed in the ChCh quakes that were supposed to have reinforcing in the slabs, had been signed off by council after a pre-pour inspection of the reinforcing that used to be carried out the day before, but the contractors had come in overnight, removed the steel and presumably set it aside to sell on the next job. Maybe the last house built got the only reinforcing in the subdivision.

(In earlier times reinforcing wasn't mandatory, but I believe even then people paid extra to get it, but found out after the quakes it was never put in).

Nowadays the pre-pour inspection has to be carried out within hours before the concrete pour - to make it difficult for crooked contractors to cart it away after inspection.

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