gzt: The beetroot would be similar enough to canned I imagine. 58% because vinegar water mostly + beetroot.

The stuff they use is probably canned too, but you could always worry about the bisphenol A leaching out of the can lining.

kryptonjohn: The patties at McD are fine because there's nothing in them apart from lean beef.

I don't think it's a secret that one of the posters in this thread who's not very happy with McD's patties - is because they're openly vegetarian - and I'm not making a value judgement on that at all as that's fine.

But for them an "OK" McD's patty would be a void in spacetime  - nothing at all - a complete absence of the 100% lean beef - and for reasons I do agree with about the buns, sauces etc, they'd be gone too, leaving you with a piece of iceberg lettuce and a slice of pickled gherkin, hopefully arranged with resemblance to a cheshire cat's smile, floating in thin air inside a recyclable cardboard carton.

So much misconception here. For the record, I have not always been a vegetarian. I’m not certain offhand exactly when I made that move. I could work it out but it is too much trouble. It was at least 30 years ago.

I was never a big meat eater, but when I did eat it, before I started thinking about it, I enjoyed it well enough. I remember in the 1960s in America there used to be diners where you could get real hamburgers. Even McDonalds started out that way. These were nothing like the modern mass-produced cardboard cutouts. They were a meal in themselves. Hand-prepared, non-standardised, thick, real meat patties from high quality beef mince, real bread buns, heaps of different vegetables along with the usual lettuce, tomato, gherkin, good cheese (if a cheeseburger), tomato and mayonnaise but not drowned in sauce, real gourmet burgers that looked and tasted like actual food. I have never had most of the modern versions, other than McDonalds and maybe Wendys, but they didn’t begin to compare.

I now think meat is a bad idea but I am not against it as such. What I am against is the seemingly unhealthy and tasteless franchise dumbing down of food. If you have to eat meat, you should at least eat real meat and not these pale imitations. As I have stated, I think fast food blunts the ability to taste and enjoy real food. My argument is not against meat, but against inferior quality. Think of it as the food equivalent of Chinese counterfeit designer goods.

I think you fail to understand how much of the world would starve to death if we had continued to employ the "only made by hand" ethos of that time. Some mass produced food is the only feasible way to feed so many billions of hungry mouths. As to whether we should be in that situation per se is another argument, which most people here already know my views on. The benefits of mass-produced food is two-fold. It's faster, and therefore in most cases cheaper, and the other is obviously the quantity.

I don't know when the last time you went to a McD's, but given your lifestyle choice and how long it's been that way, your knowledge on this is likely pretty outdated.  A lot of what you comment about it seems like it was copied and pasted from anti fast food facebook groups. I'd put a lot more stock in what you said, if you made a trip to a few of these outlets you slag so viciously and actually ate there to give them a fair toot. 

I am not saying they are Michelin Star meals or anything, but you might be a little surprised how they have come along in recent years. 

I have never had Facebook and nothing I write is copied and pasted (unless an attributed quote). I have never seen a group as you describe so if I sound like them, maybe it is because we are all speaking truth.

Admittedly it has been a very long time since I darkened the doorway of any McDonalds. My comments are not, and can not be, based on recent experience. I am also aware that McDonalds has tried to up its game in recent years due to social pressures. I am not specifically picking on them. They are an example of a genre. I have not read or heard much to make me change my mind, though. Some of the main selling points of fast food outfits are fast and cheap. It is hard to include quality in that equation.

Looking at the obesity statistics of this country and America in particular, I don’t think fast food consumers are exactly starving to death. This is a ridiculous argument. Mass food production is not the same as lowest common denominator meals.

Rikkitic:

 

I have never had Facebook and nothing I write is copied and pasted (unless an attributed quote). I have never seen a group as you describe so if I sound like them, maybe it is because we are all speaking truth.

 

Admittedly it has been a very long time since I darkened the doorway of any McDonalds. My comments are not, and can not be, based on recent experience. I am also aware that McDonalds has tried to up its game in recent years due to social pressures. I am not specifically picking on them. They are an example of a genre. I have not read or heard much to make me change my mind, though. Some of the main selling points of fast food outfits are fast and cheap. It is hard to include quality in that equation.

 

Looking at the obesity statistics of this country and America in particular, I don’t think fast food consumers are exactly starving to death. This is a ridiculous argument. Mass food production is not the same as lowest common denominator meals.

 

McD's and other fast food places usually use locally sourced meats (NZ Tegel Chicken at the like at KFC etc) and unlike previously, you will find things like Fish Burgers contain 99% actual fish (rather than previously fish byproduct). No, they aren't artisanally created, but that isn't their directive. 

I actually think you might be surprised if you visited these places, how good the quality is now. A McD's Kiwiburger is actually pretty decent, and whilst it's not to my personal taste most of the time, I think slagging them on quality is likely at least a LITTLE unfair. 

The problem is the lack of *balance* in peoples diet. If you drank 30l of pure NZ water you could die as well. 

Obviously, I am excluding things like chips etc. Even Corn Chips have a scary amount of fat in them. I love Doritos but I was *shocked* how bad they are for you. 

Taco Bell probably isn't much worse than any other mass marketed Mexican, though it's been QUITE a while since I went there. 

These are fair points and as a foodie I respect your judgement. I guess I just don't see why we have to keep having more of this kind of thing. I agree with you about the balance, but things are out of balance now so why add yet another to the mix? I think together they just encourage people to abuse themselves even more. For the record, I do not think McDonalds is the worst by any means. They have long since been surpassed by Burger King and KFC in that regard. Or does KFC serve unfried chicken these days? I don't actually know.

Rikkitic:

 

These are fair points and as a foodie I respect your judgement. I guess I just don't see why we have to keep having more of this kind of thing. I agree with you about the balance, but things are out of balance now so why add yet another to the mix? I think together they just encourage people to abuse themselves even more. For the record, I do not think McDonalds is the worst by any means. They have long since been surpassed by Burger King and KFC in that regard. Or does KFC serve unfried chicken these days? I don't actually know.

 

The F in KFC stands for Fried. 

One fatal flaw in your argument is that you think it's to INCREASE the amount of fast food people eat. It might temporarily, but actually what happens when more players enter the market, is that they just steal market share from each other. So if TB enters the Market, then McD and KFC, and the others may lose customers that may have eaten at those establishments. It's just more choice. I don't see any issue with MORE choice. 

Ive had a couple of McD's new burgers, the gourmet type ones, whatever they call them. Not bad at all. Thicker meat. more veges, not bad at all. BK has similar burgers, closer to a burger bar than Macca's standard burgers. So as stated, they do provide a more traditional burger these days. Its fast food, not always junk food

KFC. Well, chicken is lean thats a tick. Has the skin thats bad. Soaked in greasy batter. Ouch

But they also do salady type meals that aren't 99% grease 

networkn:

 

Rikkitic:

 

These are fair points and as a foodie I respect your judgement. I guess I just don't see why we have to keep having more of this kind of thing. I agree with you about the balance, but things are out of balance now so why add yet another to the mix? I think together they just encourage people to abuse themselves even more. For the record, I do not think McDonalds is the worst by any means. They have long since been surpassed by Burger King and KFC in that regard. Or does KFC serve unfried chicken these days? I don't actually know.

 

 

The F in KFC stands for Fried. 

 

One fatal flaw in your argument is that you think it's to INCREASE the amount of fast food people eat. It might temporarily, but actually what happens when more players enter the market, is that they just steal market share from each other. So if TB enters the Market, then McD and KFC, and the others may lose customers that may have eaten at those establishments. It's just more choice. I don't see any issue with MORE choice. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd imagine Taco Bell would be better than KFC by a country mile. In fact if they came here, every diner that went TB instead of KFC will be AOK!

From time to time KFC has grilled chicken as a special item but looks like it is permanently available in the good ol' US of A. Hardly any fat but a fair whack of sodium.

https://www.kfc.com/menu/chicken/grilled

networkn:

 

One fatal flaw in your argument is that you think it's to INCREASE the amount of fast food people eat. It might temporarily, but actually what happens when more players enter the market, is that they just steal market share from each other. So if TB enters the Market, then McD and KFC, and the others may lose customers that may have eaten at those establishments. It's just more choice. I don't see any issue with MORE choice. 

 

That is a good point and no, I hadn't thought of it. I continue to believe that overconsumption of the wrong kinds of foods is causing real problems, though. A concern I have is that by offering more of this kind of choice, people are subjected to more pressure to choose one of these options over better ones.

You make another point that intrigues me. Maybe the problem is no longer the standard fare that is offered, but all the junk that goes with it. If people just ate hamburgers or maybe even chicken, but without the cola and chips and other extras, there wouldn't be a problem. That is worth considering.

Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

One fatal flaw in your argument is that you think it's to INCREASE the amount of fast food people eat. It might temporarily, but actually what happens when more players enter the market, is that they just steal market share from each other. So if TB enters the Market, then McD and KFC, and the others may lose customers that may have eaten at those establishments. It's just more choice. I don't see any issue with MORE choice. 

 

 

That is a good point and no, I hadn't thought of it. I continue to believe that overconsumption of the wrong kinds of foods is causing real problems, though. A concern I have is that by offering more of this kind of choice, people are subjected to more pressure to choose one of these options over better ones.

 

You make another point that intrigues me. Maybe the problem is no longer the standard fare that is offered, but all the junk that goes with it. If people just ate hamburgers or maybe even chicken, but without the cola and chips and other extras, there wouldn't be a problem. That is worth considering.

 

Indeed it is. Chips are just soooo bad what with the carbs the fat and the salt. Yet they are so instantly appealing and liked by the people.

So I think it's futile to try and attack the consumption problem at the supply side and the only solution is to reduce the demand. Through education.