2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2769470 31-Aug-2021 18:13

TeaLeaf: 4 choices would sound reasonable, but perhaps the number of arrivals spread to take the load off some borders/miqs reducing the potential on over burdened borders/miqs leaking the virus. But not sure it be would legal to force somebody to MIQ in a city not of their preference and then after 21 days in miq, fly back to their preferred destination, an extended layover of sorts (not an enjoyable one wherever it is spent Im sure). I read that headline questioning the legality of lockdowns even. In times of civil emergency ie war, pandemics etc, I am not sure if legality is an issue?..... Do we have any statistics on border arrivals and MIQ centre numbers for each location since they began?

MIQ is 14 days

Re being diverted, there is a worldwide pandemic, raging, deal with it

I think legality was raised last year, but feel free to ban it...... /S

TeaLeaf

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#2769471 31-Aug-2021 18:13

tdgeek:

Might be like the whitebait thing

Given how many species of whitebait are endangered native freshwater species, it should be permanently on lockdown, especially given how much we are destroying their habitat with yesteryear agriculture industry affluent.

But seats, not sure they should be so callously targeted lol. Yep sounds weird.

tdgeek

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#2769472 31-Aug-2021 18:19

Batman: the way i see it. The sick rate will never come down.

We then have 2 choices.

either we open, we all get covid, or we close and nobody gets covid.

We would have had 2 years to think about this by next year

You created this record breaking thread, you should know the answer. The instance of being sick and hospitalised and death is massively less when vaccinated. Add in future booster/improvements, it gets better. So NZ wont be closed border for 10 years. Once we garner more knowledge, and the vaccine benefit will no doubt improve, we will kick open the door to suitably vaccinated arrivals and the same will apply to Kiwis travelling. You may get Covid, be asymptomatic, over it in 14 days, or you take a day off work. It will hopefully be that end game

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#2769474 31-Aug-2021 18:22

tdgeek:

MIQ is 14 days

Re being diverted, there is a worldwide pandemic, raging, deal with it

I think legality was raised last year, but feel free to ban it...... /S

yep, but havnt we had cases longer than 14 days which is why it was suggested to lengthen it?

I agree re deal with it, I might not have phrased it that way however hehe.

My family member is in China and not had the Vaccine, I was looking at a bloomberg report and the vaccine numbers appear very good, along with the ability to add variants rapidly. But like everything on the internet I am finding it hard to know what is disinformation and reality. Is comparing results as straight forward as just percentages per "xyz" population number?

tdgeek

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#2769476 31-Aug-2021 18:23

TeaLeaf: But seats, not sure they should be so callously targeted lol. Yep sounds weird.

No doubt due to fomite transmission, but these days that's not really a thing anymore? Especially butts on seats

tdgeek

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#2769478 31-Aug-2021 18:25

TeaLeaf: yep, but havnt we had cases longer than 14 days which is why it was suggested to lengthen it? I agree re deal with it, I might not have phrased it that way however hehe. My family member is in China and not had the Vaccine, I was looking at a bloomberg report and the vaccine numbers appear very good, along with the ability to add variants rapidly. But like everything on the internet I am finding it hard to know what is disinformation and reality. Is comparing results as straight forward as just percentages per "xyz" population number?

You got that right. Here, as in GZ, there are a few people that know their stuff/research/dig deep. Very helpful. If I need to bone up on Fox news, I'll just go fishing instead.

DS248

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#2769479 31-Aug-2021 18:25

For the first time, NZ vaccination rate now well above that in AU (7-day ave 47% higher). Seven day average higher even than the peak rate in Singapore. Question is, how long it will be sustained.

Singapore rate now much lower as they have already reached close to saturation coverage of eligible people. AU rates vary quite a lot between states. NSW similar to NZ currently (& for the same reason!).

Our total doses (~3.4m) is the same as QLD (similar populations) though their current rate is only half ours (then again, they already disposed of their recent Delta outbreak so currently not the same motivation as here).

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Fred99

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#2769482 31-Aug-2021 18:59

tdgeek:

TeaLeaf: But seats, not sure they should be so callously targeted lol. Yep sounds weird.

No doubt due to fomite transmission, but these days that's not really a thing anymore? Especially butts on seats

Yeah - seems to have been made either mainly irrelevant due to the much increased risk of airborne transmission with delta, was possibly overestimated originally, or possibly even that the mutations that created delta impede fomite transmission.

I think NZ was one of the few places where there was pretty solid evidence that fomite transmission actually happened (MIQ case where it was almost certainly transmitted via garbage?). In China they thought it happened via imported frozen salmon. Norwegian salmon exporters disputed that.

I think what's missed is that in most of the rest of the world, they have absolutely no idea how or where any individual case caught it.

It's very easy to test and show that there's viral RNA on an object, but very difficult to show if that's viable virus that could cause infection. My guess is "most likely" it happened and still can, health authorities still routinely "deep clean" and things like hand-hygiene remain important.

First lockdown I was washing stuff from the supermarket (produce etc that could have been handled by other people). Not now, but if we end up with a raging local outbreak, maybe I'll revise that complacency.

Ge0rge

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#2769491 31-Aug-2021 19:10

TeaLeaf:

But not sure it be would legal to force somebody to MIQ in a city not of their preference and then after 21 days in miq, fly back to their preferred destination, an extended layover of sorts (not an enjoyable one wherever it is spent Im sure).

This happens on a very regular basis at the moment, but by bus. Also happened to those Border Averters who landed in Queenstown when the bubble was collapsing. They were bused to Chch, did their 14 days, and then the majority were released into Chch - so not even returned to their origin airport, much to the annoyance of many.

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#2769504 31-Aug-2021 19:39

Docco on 3 With paddy.

Touched on trying to get the flow of infection image we have been trying to picture. His finger thus far pointing at AUT and the younger ones around it

Which kind of makes sense with the attached partners and flats where we initially linked the Devonport chaps worker to

Batman

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#2769520 31-Aug-2021 20:16

Auckland student manages to fly to Dunedin under level 4

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-lockdown-breach-otago-uni-student-isolating-after-auckland-flight/P2C3AHXI4TMNYDQI53UC2EEDJY/

PS. This is one that we know we know of

sbiddle

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#2769521 31-Aug-2021 20:28

Reanalyse:

Border isolation still seems the way to go. Despite the issues

Even with high "full vaccination rate" of 81% and "one dose rate" at 91% of all people 18 and above, Scotland (my birthplace) with a similar population to NZ had 3,893 new cases on Monday with 551 in hospital , with 52 in intensive care. Source https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-58383606

I wonder if the "good vaccination rate then we can get to normal" will work ?

It's pretty clear in the past 2 weeks in particular that current vaccinations aren't delivering the results many were expecting now that Delta has come along. It's going to be very interesting to see Pfizer data in the next few weeks and more data out of Israel because some early non peer reviewed data shows pretty good results for a booster.

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#2769522 31-Aug-2021 20:30

New L3 rules seem pretty open to unlimited sized bubbles..

Fred99

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#2769525 31-Aug-2021 20:53

sbiddle:

New L3 rules seem pretty open to unlimited sized bubbles...

Technically the truth but de facto probably what was happening quite widely even under L4.

As I expect we're going to be in some form of lockdown for quite some time, maybe it's better to accept some degree of extra risk for compassionate reasons than face widespread and growing non-compliance with rules deemed to be too harsh.

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#2769526 31-Aug-2021 21:04

PolicyGuy:

Dingbatt:

Maybe if they are able to secure more supplies they should go to Auckland since it is worst affected*.The boundaries are set by the alert levels so there won’t be any vaccination migration.

My vested interest in this is to get out of lockdown and return to some semblance of normality. My family and I have been fully vaccinated for months.

* Note: I did suggest vaccine priority for Auckland pages back. It has also been picked up in an opinion piece in today’s NZ Auckland NZHerald.

FTFY

Truly amazing "news" - the Auckland Herald thinks its staff and readership should be protected ahead of anyone else.

Edit: Apologies, intemperate comment removed

Changed it back thanks. The piece* was by Claire Trevett a Wellington based political reporter.

Since every instance of an outbreak has emanated from Auckland it is protecting everyone in the long run.

* Claire Trevett: To Auckland should go the Covid-19 vaccines while the rest feast at level 3. Claire Trevett, NZHerald 31 August 2021.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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