2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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2566 posts

Uber Geek

#2780046 17-Sep-2021 20:46

Handle9:

A license is something you apply for to do something you want to do. There is a clear element of choice. You are not required to have a drivers license. You can choose not to get one and not drive a car. You will (likely) not die if you can not drive a car.

A vaccine passport is quite different if it's a requirement to do things necessary to sustain life like go and buy food.

Things that are necessary to sustain life would not require you to be vaccinated, as there are people with legitimate reasons as to why they can't be vaccinated. (Basically just medical reasons, religious/conspiracy theorists need not apply)

Vaccine passports would likely be required for doing things like going to bars or large gatherings of people for recreation/conferences/etc.

On2or3wheels

195 posts

Master Geek

#2780048 17-Sep-2021 21:00

If our vaccination rate gets high enough there shouldn't even be a need for this domestically.

I can see it being useful at the border though for restricting people coming in.

alexx

867 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2780052 17-Sep-2021 21:38

MikeB4:

How exactly is a vaccine passport going to stop the pandemic. It has been shown that those vaccinated can be infected and pass on the virus. The effort to bring a passport would be better put to education, accelerating vaccination, researching effective treatments which is the likely arrester of the virus.

There are some people with a drivers license that will crash their car. But a drivers license is an indication that you have at least some driving skills and/or experience and might be less risk to others than those who do not have one.

Perhaps the effort spent administering the drivers license system could be spent on education and making cars and roads safer. Of course those things have happened in parallel with the drivers license system. Our road toll in the 1980s was close to 800 each years. Now it's around the 300-350 mark. Covid-19 has a potential to kill more New Zealanders, than the worst year in our country's road toll. Just look at Sweden over the course of the pandemic, or right now in the USA with over 1000 deaths per day, or closer to home, take a look at NSW in recent weeks.

I'm not sure if we can accelerate vaccination, we might have hit our peak a couple of weeks ago with 1.5 ~ 1.6 vaccinations per 100 people per day.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita?country=NZL~AUS~USA~GBR~JPN

These days in Auckland you can get a vaccination appointment this weekend or next week any day you want. There will be a vaccination centre or chemist that's reasonably close with spare appointments. The people that haven't had their first shot yet or aren't booked for one next week didn't want one, or they can't be bothered rebooking to get one sooner.

Perhaps there are a small number that don't know they can change their booking to get their first vaccination sooner. There might need to be some stronger incentives.

#include <standard.disclaimer>

Oblivian

7296 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2780066 17-Sep-2021 22:27

The funniest thing is. The social media brigade are so riled up by the simplest of few words or headline, they will have no clue this 90% mission is an independent NZME project and still think it is a government overlords waste of tax dollars etc etc

I guess with this rush of walk-ins and bought forward high rates, it puts a slight dilemma. In ~6 weeks time the same rush is going to need to be repeated and have the capacity of staff and locations. Hopefully it has been a steady enough demand over the past 4 to keep it busy.

DS248

1691 posts

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#2780073 18-Sep-2021 00:23

I guess one way to restrict the spread of Delta

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/17/china/human-cost-covid-quarantine-mic-intl-hnk/index.html

Batman

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#2780122 18-Sep-2021 09:53

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-police-investigating-another-alleged-travel-breach/6LUXA6LYA4F6XLQCHQBETNFZPU/

Batman

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#2780126 18-Sep-2021 10:12

good news

Delta "does not appear to cause more serious disease than previous variants" in kids + adolescents

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-outbreak-how-children-are-faring-against-delta-variant/HZDWRSNPA6WTYYDNZGT3P73WPI/

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ezbee

2405 posts

Uber Geek

#2780128 18-Sep-2021 10:23

Quite a bit of difference with second vaccination under level 4, vs level 1.
The center I went to looked to be running half the capacity with the extra spacing throughout.

Had me thinking that they may have also redeployed vaccinators to stand up other centers.
I guess part of problem is that nurses vaccinating and nurses testing might be same people in Auckland outbreak.

Same smooth efficiency though quickly in and out though with less contact the card was not completed.

Its a pity rather than tossing dollars at shovels to bury crystals at green schools.
Funding a larger nurse training intake, and forcing DHBs to offer extra positions down the track to those that pass.
Well how much better enduring return on investment that would have been long term.

alexx

867 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2780215 18-Sep-2021 12:47

Oblivian:

The funniest thing is. The social media brigade are so riled up by the simplest of few words or headline, they will have no clue this 90% mission is an independent NZME project and still think it is a government overlords waste of tax dollars etc etc

I guess with this rush of walk-ins and bought forward high rates, it puts a slight dilemma. In ~6 weeks time the same rush is going to need to be repeated and have the capacity of staff and locations. Hopefully it has been a steady enough demand over the past 4 to keep it busy.

I keep hearing about this 90% figure, but 90% of what exactly?

In Australia they claim they have reached 70% vaccination, but after looking closer it seems that it might be 70% of the adult population, or perhaps 70% of people over 16, but some news organisations are presenting the numbers as if they are percentage of population.

Covid doesn't know your age, so unless they have found a way of preventing spread in younger people, it's a somewhat meaningless number although great for marketing I guess.

So I'm wondering about this NZ Herald 90% number, it's fine until someone says that we're reached 90% so let's open up the borders now.

Right now the NZ Herald claims we have 36.9% fully vaccinated and 34.7% partially vaccinated.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/news/coronavirus/

Just like Australia we appear to have passed the magic 70% mark. Is this true, or is this also a marketing number?

I'd prefer to use country population figures (all ages):
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=NZL+AUS+USA+GBR+JPN+PRT+ESP

Disclaimer - Our World in Data have some out of date population figures, so we might be 1-2 percent short of the % shown in some of their charts.

#include <standard.disclaimer>

Scott3

3963 posts

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#2780222 18-Sep-2021 13:13

alexx:

I keep hearing about this 90% figure, but 90% of what exactly?

The figure came from Ashley Bloomfield, notably the comment was that he would like to see at least 90% vaccinated. i.e. job is not done when we hit 90%

Media has latched onto this number.

Has wildly interpreted as 90% of irrigable population (i.e. 12+ years).

Personally I think we should be talking in terms of total population, so the numbers don't drop back each time a new tranche of ages are made eligible. But it is what it is. You are correct that other countries have been using differing metrics.

[edit] - should note that (unless they have fixed it), ourworldindata has NZ's population slighly understated, so out percentages from that source are a bit better than reality.

Ministry of health provides data:

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data

They have 60% of our total population vaccinated with at least one dose, or 72% of eligable.

Batman

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#2780231 18-Sep-2021 13:38

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-20-new-cases-as-locked-down-aucklanders-cling-to-hope/ALVAACRIDFVKQLAGEBAYTIEPKE/

20 cases

1 unlinked

7 YESTERDAY's cases with exposure events

Batman

Mad Scientist
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#2780232 18-Sep-2021 13:39

Scott3:

alexx:

I keep hearing about this 90% figure, but 90% of what exactly?

The figure came from Ashley Bloomfield, notably the comment was that he would like to see at least 90% vaccinated. i.e. job is not done when we hit 90%

Media has latched onto this number.

Has wildly interpreted as 90% of irrigable population (i.e. 12+ years).

Personally I think we should be talking in terms of total population, so the numbers don't drop back each time a new tranche of ages are made eligible. But it is what it is. You are correct that other countries have been using differing metrics.

[edit] - should note that (unless they have fixed it), ourworldindata has NZ's population slighly understated, so out percentages from that source are a bit better than reality.

Ministry of health provides data:

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data

They have 60% of our total population vaccinated with at least one dose, or 72% of eligable.

for delta i needs to be total. our hospitals can't even cope with locking down after 1 case, let alone no lockdown as suggested by all the top people since last week.

whether you get to total 90% that's a different question

On2or3wheels

195 posts

Master Geek

#2780290 18-Sep-2021 16:10

alexx:

Just like Australia we appear to have passed the magic 70% mark. Is this true, or is this also a marketing number?

The percentage targets are for fully vaccinated, not a single dose. Both Australia & NZ have a long way to go before everyone gets their 2nd shot.

tdgeek

29740 posts

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#2780325 18-Sep-2021 17:14

Batman:

for delta i needs to be total. our hospitals can't even cope with locking down after 1 case

Can you post the link for that?

tdgeek

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#2780350 18-Sep-2021 17:18

On2or3wheels:

alexx:

Just like Australia we appear to have passed the magic 70% mark. Is this true, or is this also a marketing number?

The percentage targets are for fully vaccinated, not a single dose. Both Australia & NZ have a long way to go before everyone gets their 2nd shot.

I think I read about 70% have had the first dose here. Some are today, some n 3 weeks, the max are 6 weeks. So in 6 weeks, we will be 70% fully vaccinated. Add that that those getting the first dose today etc. Your post seems t be glass half empty.

Factor in, trials for under 12's, and 6 months +.

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