EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2101285 4-Oct-2018 09:13

"Rapide 3 electric cargo scooter trundles into Paris"

"Utility three-wheelers are a pretty common sight in many parts of the developing world.

While many auto rickshaws or tuk-tuks are powered by two-strokes, efforts to curb pollution have seen petrol-powered vehicles replaced by natural gas and battery-electric vehicles over the last few years.

Gaius Autos rolled into Paris this week to show off its electric commercial maxi scooter, dubbed the Rapide 3."

https://newatlas.com/gaius-rapide-3-electric-cargo-scooter/56622/

wellygary

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#2101305 4-Oct-2018 09:40

Very similar to the Kyburzs NZ post operate,

Plus they also use the larger 4 wheel paxsters

kingdragonfly

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#2101315 4-Oct-2018 09:52

That's funny.

The model name is literally "dxp nz"

https://kyburz-switzerland.ch/en/delivery_vehicles/dxp_nz

Here's the Paxter

http://www.paxster.no/?CatID=1196

gzt

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#2102667 6-Oct-2018 20:47

Old news. Honda sets price and range target for Fit/Jazz EV:

Inside EV: The new Honda Fit EV (also known as Jazz) is to be ready in 2020 and offered globally in volume of up to 100,000 annually. The keys to achieving that lofty sale goal is a price of 2 million yen (over $18,000 or €15,500) and range of 300 km (186 miles) in an undisclosed test cycle.

That's a low pricepoint in comparison to Nissan.

kingdragonfly

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#2102821 7-Oct-2018 09:21

Warning this guy is a non-techie, MBA, whose current job is "Thematics research"

"Thematics research" means "Though I'm not an engineer, I like to talk about tech."

Or as "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" puts it "a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes."

His background is in economics and previsously worked for oil and gas team and the lead analyst for oil field services.

The "five year" figure appears to be extracted after researching his backside.

https://www.designnews.com/materials/will-future-evs-only-have-five-year-battery-life/118340601859495

Will Future EVs Only Have a Five-Year Battery Life?

Fast-charging and nickel-rich chemistries will accelerate degradation of future EV batteries, expert says.

by: Charles Murray
Battery/Energy Storage
September 19, 2018

Many EV batteries may not last as long as consumers expect—especially if trends toward nickel-rich chemistries and fast-charging continue, an expert said at last week’s Battery Show.

Asad Farid of Berenberg Bank told engineers at the show that many of the newer breed of batteries will last, on average, only about five years. 'We think the battery degradation rate in your electric car will increase rather than decrease going forward,' he said. [Of course "we" means "I"]

The shorter life expectancy will come as a surprise to those who believe all EV batteries will behave in a manner similar to that of Tesla Inc.’s big, actively cooled lithium-ion battery packs, Farid said. ...

Farid cited three main reasons for the shorter life expectancy in future batteries.

First ... the move to higher energy density (greater range) comes at the expense of longevity...

Second, a shift toward faster charging speeds will reduce life expectancy...

Third, the use of air-cooling leads to faster battery degradation...

...Because drivers are more likely to deeply discharge a smaller battery, smaller packs on average will not last as long as the bigger ones, he predicted.

To be sure, consumers who purchase EVs would be covered if the batteries degrade as rapidly as Farid predicts.

Today, most manufacturers offer warranties—typically for eight years and 100,000 miles. Moreover, some states are providing protection for consumers who buy used EVs. California, for example, recently passed a bill that would provide a rebate to buyers of used EVs to replace the battery packs in their vehicles.

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#2102844 7-Oct-2018 10:41

Could we see a move to the razor blade model of selling EV's cheap but making money off the consumerables? (e.g. batteries)

I've seen proposed one option to egt around the need to charge is to "swappa" battery scheme - pull into a service station and your flat battery is exchanged for a fully charged one. Drive in, pay the charge (pun intended), drive out. Along the lines of what a lot of sites now do with LPG bottles. Cars will need to be designed with easy access to the battery.

That does mean however that the industry will need to settle on a battery standard - basically one size fits all - and I can't see that ever happening unless the EU forces it on the manufacturers like they did with the phone companies and micro-usb becoming the standard.

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#2102930 7-Oct-2018 16:30

The battery swap idea has been looked at before and abandoned as too difficult.

Just like with bbq gas cylinders, people don't want to hand over their newish battery for potentially someone else's old but functioning battery.

I'm not convinced we will need battery packs with ranges greater than 500 km as very few of us drive that far without a significant break.

As a thought exercise how much more cash would you pay her a range of 600 km vrs 400 assuming there was no waiting for a rapid charger.

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#2102980 7-Oct-2018 19:40

afe66: As a thought exercise how much more cash would you pay her a range of 600 km vrs 400 assuming there was no waiting for a rapid charger.

For me 400km is the sweet spot. Any less would be impractical, and any more would have very limited utility assuming that the battery capacity doesn't diminish significantly over the period of my ownership.

tripper1000

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#2103151 8-Oct-2018 08:55

Two of the most common EV misconceptions I encounter is that:

1) You can only/must charge an EV at a public charging station.

2) That you have to actively wait while it charges.

These misconceptions, combined with innate ICE habits such as waiting until it's empty before refuelling, seem to underpin many peoples reasoning for improved range, increased numbers of fast charger and faster fast charging before they buy an EV.

Once people get past these misconceptions for many the mental barriers to driving an EV are gone.

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#2103157 8-Oct-2018 09:03

With new predictions of $2.70+/L by early next year those misconceptions are getting easier to argue against all the time.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

frednz

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#2103159 8-Oct-2018 09:15

tripper1000:

Two of the most common EV misconceptions I encounter is that:

1) You can only/must charge an EV at a public charging station.

2) That you have to actively wait while it charges.

These misconceptions, combined with innate ICE habits such as waiting until it's empty before refuelling, seem to underpin many peoples reasoning for improved range, increased numbers of fast charger and faster fast charging before they buy an EV.

Once people get past these misconceptions for many the mental barriers to driving an EV are gone.

I doubt whether people who have these misconceptions have done any research into buying an EV! The main "mental EV barrier" a lot of people I have talked to have, is the insanely high price of new EVs and the fact that imported second-hand Leafs aren't supported by Nissan NZ.

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GV27

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#2103164 8-Oct-2018 09:24

frednz:

tripper1000:

Two of the most common EV misconceptions I encounter is that:

1) You can only/must charge an EV at a public charging station.

2) That you have to actively wait while it charges.

These misconceptions, combined with innate ICE habits such as waiting until it's empty before refuelling, seem to underpin many peoples reasoning for improved range, increased numbers of fast charger and faster fast charging before they buy an EV.

Once people get past these misconceptions for many the mental barriers to driving an EV are gone.

I doubt whether people who have these misconceptions have done any research into buying an EV! The main "mental EV barrier" a lot of people I have talked to have, is the insanely high price of new EVs and the fact that imported second-hand Leafs aren't supported by Nissan NZ.

Don't forget the fact the Leaf is ugly as sin; electric cars making wacky design statements hasn't helped uptake either.

tripper1000

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#2103182 8-Oct-2018 10:00

frednz:

I doubt whether people who have these misconceptions have done any research into buying an EV! The main "mental EV barrier" a lot of people I have talked to have, is the insanely high price of new EVs and the fact that imported second-hand Leafs aren't supported by Nissan NZ.

Even with PHEV they make these assumptions, so I know it isn't Nissan (support or fugliness) issue.

Yes, the answers are easy to find, but people simply don't know to ask the question.

People seem to naturally assume it's the same procedures/processes/routines as petrol, except you are pumping electrons not fuel, so a range of only 200km, charge time of 40 minutes and no charge station in their neighbourhood seem like a major hassle compared to petrol. Even my technically minded friends and colleagues make this assumption. (Much of the arguments are simply repeating what is published in the media).

The enlightenment usually starts with [them] "I don't have time to wait for an EV to charge", [me] "I don't ever wait for my EV to charge, it charges while I'm in bed sleeping", [them with puzzled look] "hey - what now?"

The EV range issue is magnified by the fact that most people don't know you are starting every morning with a max range.

PolicyGuy

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#2103185 8-Oct-2018 10:20

alasta:
For me 400km is the sweet spot. Any less would be impractical, and any more would have very limited utility assuming that the battery capacity doesn't diminish significantly over the period of my ownership.

Whereas for me somewhere around 250 - 300km will be fine.
If I can do Whanganui to Wellington and return, with a fast charge somewhere around the half way point - that's Levin, so the charge could be anywhere from Foxton to Otaki - then I'll be sweet. Particularly if I only need to charge either on the way south or the way north, but not both. My 'usual' destination in Wellington has just put in an EV charge point (blue caravan plug) available to visitors, so I could even top up while the meetings are going on.

My next car will almost certainly be an EV

frednz

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#2103200 8-Oct-2018 10:33

tripper1000:

The EV range issue is magnified by the fact that most people don't know you are starting every morning with a max range.

This is true when you're at home, but I think most non-EV owners are more worried about what happens when you're on holiday away from home, particularly where charging stations are fairly sparse, such as on the west coast of the South Island.

And would you always charge to 100% at home, some people say that it's better, for the sake of battery life, to charge to only 80% unless 100% is really necessary?

I think EVs are ideal for people who currently own two petrol cars, one of which is used mainly to get to and from work. In these circumstances, it's a no-brainer to buy an EV for getting to and from work and to use the petrol car for longer trips.

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