Camry Hybrid - 300kg towing capability. Really!!??

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#1620307 31-Aug-2016 15:48

joker97: Clean image? What about towing plants and veggies with you wherever you go? That shouldn't exceed 300kgs?

I think as long as they are planted in something and absorbing those nasty carbons, that is!

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

robjg63

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#1620322 31-Aug-2016 16:26

If you want an Electric vehicle that can tow try a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV

The other advantage is that at least short trips wont use any petrol at all.

From the Mitsi UK website:

Q: CAN I TOW WITH THE OUTLANDER PHEV?

Fully competitive with comparable vehicles the Outlander PHEV has a towing capacity of 1,500kg (braked), about the weight of a medium caravan.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1620324 31-Aug-2016 16:32

robjg63:

If you want an Electric vehicle that can tow try a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV

The other advantage is that at least short trips wont use any petrol at all.

From the Mitsi UK website:

Q: CAN I TOW WITH THE OUTLANDER PHEV?

Fully competitive with comparable vehicles the Outlander PHEV has a towing capacity of 1,500kg (braked), about the weight of a medium caravan.

BIG difference in Price. Top Spec Camry Hybrid Atara SL is $46,990.00 (Price from Toyota NZ Website). Entry into the Outlander PHEV is $59,990 with top spec being $66,990.00 (Prices for MMNZ Website)

Bung

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#1620331 31-Aug-2016 16:55

Some sites explain the 300kg limit as necessary to stop electric motor and battery overheating. No explanation why Lexus models have higher limits. It may be tied to type of engine, whether Atkinson Cycle type or not how much the electric motor gets loaded.

Edit maybe the science is as basic as 300kg trailer or 3 backseat passengers.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1620334 31-Aug-2016 17:12

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Ok, a quick look of the spec says folding rear seats, so the batteries aren't there.

However, a boot of only 420 litres (Compared to a Conmmodore 495 or new Civic 512) suggests the batteries are in the boot area, or failing that they'll be down the central tunnel space.

Further research answers my own question. The Camry Hybrid batteries are in the boot area, at least according to this review of the model. I'm also fairly certain NZ source the Camry out of Australia too.

http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/toyota-camry-hybrid-atara-sl-new-car-review-20150622-ghuw3d.html

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1620335 31-Aug-2016 17:14

Bung: Some sites explain the 300kg limit as necessary to stop electric motor and battery overheating. No explanation why Lexus models have higher limits. It may be tied to type of engine, whether Atkinson Cycle type or not how much the electric motor gets loaded.

Edit maybe the science is as basic as 300kg trailer or 3 backseat passengers.

The Camry appears to be built out of Australia, whereas I don't think the Lexus is.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1620336 31-Aug-2016 17:18

A potential customer queried the low towing limit on the Toyota NZ Facebook page. Toyota NZ's response

For the Camry Hybrid, 300kg is the maximum towing capacity that is set by Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC).

A study was done in 2011 regarding the 300kg towing capacity, and the conclusion was that 300kg is sufficient for some customers. However we understand that this would not satisfy all of our customers, and we have been feeding this back to TMC in order to request a higher tow rating.

We have the Petrol variant available with a higher towing capacity of 1200kg braked, 500kg unbraked, and fuel consumption of 7.8 litres per 100km. Alternatively, there is the Aurion with a braked towing capacity of 1600kg.

We appreciate your feedback which we have passed on to our Product Planning Team. Please contact us on 0800 TOYOTA (0800 869 682) or your nearest Authorised Toyota Dealer at www.toyota.co.nz/your-toyota/ if we can be of any more help.

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Dingbatt

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#1620344 31-Aug-2016 17:31

WyleECoyoteNZ:
robjg63:

If you want an Electric vehicle that can tow try a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV

The other advantage is that at least short trips wont use any petrol at all.

From the Mitsi UK website:

Q: CAN I TOW WITH THE OUTLANDER PHEV?

Fully competitive with comparable vehicles the Outlander PHEV has a towing capacity of 1,500kg (braked), about the weight of a medium caravan.

BIG difference in Price. Top Spec Camry Hybrid Atara SL is $46,990.00 (Price from Toyota NZ Website). Entry into the Outlander PHEV is $59,990 with top spec being $66,990.00 (Prices for MMNZ Website)

Funnily enough I did look at the PHEV, but it is way out of my price range. Plus its EV only range isn't that great and I'm not looking for that size vehicle. NZ new vehicles don't have a fast charge capability at the moment. Once the EV tech improves I am keen to explore it but it needs better energy density to become practical.
The amount of towing I do is minimal as is the weight, but it is often enough to be a pain if none of our vehicles have a towbar. I can always put a towbar on our Focus of necessary because it will only ever be for short trips with a light domestic trailer anyway. The boat lives at the beach and has a Fergie 28 to tow it.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Scott3

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#1620473 31-Aug-2016 22:36

robjg63:

If you want an Electric vehicle that can tow try a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV

The other advantage is that at least short trips wont use any petrol at all.

From the Mitsi UK website:

Q: CAN I TOW WITH THE OUTLANDER PHEV?

Fully competitive with comparable vehicles the Outlander PHEV has a towing capacity of 1,500kg (braked), about the weight of a medium caravan.

For some reason the NZ version (exact same car) is only rated at 750kg (braked and unbraked)....

Other international markets (except japan) all seem to get the 1500kg capacity...

When the Out-lander PHEV first launched in NZ I pointed out a how the tow capacity was inconsistent with the GCM published on the spec sheet on the NZ website (had GCM to suit 1500kg towing). I was hoping they would bring the towing capacity figure in line with Aust, UK etc. However they dropped the GCM to suit the watered down tow capacity.

NzBeagle

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#1620738 1-Sep-2016 10:32

WyleECoyoteNZ: Camry appears to be built out of Australia, whereas I don't think the Lexus is.

I think this is the last year for that though.

NzBeagle

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#1620740 1-Sep-2016 10:38

Fully covered I feel, but tow bars are far more cosmetic (bike racks) than functional I feel. Where the vehicles just don't cope with the add strain on the vehicle, and end up getting a lot hotter than they should, transmissions usually being the weakest link. I've seen a Corolla wagon 'workhorse' transmission die short of 100km (just within warranty) where it just didn't cope with what it was being used for and overheated to the point of no return. Have used a Camry GL with a standard auto for light local towing trips which also got distinctly hotter than usual during this time.

I'm curious though, would towing be different from carrying in any way, would the drag on the car be significantly different than fully laden?

MikeAqua

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#1620764 1-Sep-2016 10:50

Weight distribution is an important consideration. Too much weight on the tongue reduces load on the front wheels which can affect braking and steering. 30kg doesn't seem like much, but maybe the weight distribution isn't that great to start with?

Is the hybrid Camry heavier than the petrol version and if it is where is the extra weight located?

Maybe it's particularly important for the regenerative braking to have an appropriate weight distribution?

Mike

Dingbatt

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#1621708 2-Sep-2016 22:42

As far as the tongue weight goes, our Focus with a 750kg unbraked towing capacity and a 70kg tongue weight. The conventional Camry is 500 and 50, so I assume they simply use 10% of the unbraked capacity. Small sample size I admit, but may explain the 300/30 for the hybrid.

Incidentally while researching this I have discovered how many kiwis are towing loads way beyond the capability of their vehicles.
Won't be buying a Camry Hybrid that already has a towbar fitted. Whether I fit one is so that I control its towing history, exactly is still under consideration. It would probably impact the resale value, so unlikely.

Edit : semantics and some additional comment.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Dingbatt

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#1622815 5-Sep-2016 08:55

Further research led to an announcement by Toyota of a towing package for the new Prius in April this year. Rated at 750kg unbraked. There are even some lovely videos of a Prius towing a small caravan through the lake district in the UK.
The announcement referenced "improved heat management in the electric motor/generator and differential". So just as @Bung alluded to above it's all about the heat. Not the strength of the ring gear in the planetary gearbox as one Toyota mechanic told me.
Amazing what happens when car engineers look at what people want to use a family car for outside Japan.

In much the same way as most automatic transmissions require additional cooling for towing, so do hybrids.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeAqua

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#1622901 5-Sep-2016 09:50

In much the same way as most automatic transmissions require additional cooling for towing, so do hybrids.

Yep, even a bigger vehicle like a Pajero comes with an auxiliary cooler for the AT to allow for towing.

Mike

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