Subaru Legacy - "do not fit snow chains" ?

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#1329595 22-Jun-2015 22:46

you cant compare that, he doesn't have chains on the front or even on the rear and it isnt an AWD. you are comparing an apple with a watermelon.

70%+ of your breaking is done in the front.

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#1329621 22-Jun-2015 23:47

Jase2985: 70%+ of your breaking is done in the front.

That's under normal conditions, due to weight transfer towards the front during heavy breaking. This weight transfer puts most of the cars weight over the front wheels, meaning they have the most grip and hence can do most breaking.

Under near zero traction conditions this doesn't apply (although a typically lightly loaded cars of exhibit a weight bias to the front).

joker97: ....as opposed to all terrain tyres with mega thread.....

Don't confuse All terrain tires / meaty tread with winter tires. Winter tires have softer rubber, and heaps of tiny little groves to bite into snow and ice (Google images winter tire tread). Some off road tires (especially sand) are designed to float over sand, when what you need on snow / ice is to cut down into it.

lxsw20: What gave you the idea it would be wise to put chains on your lesser breaking, non steering (back wheels) is what is asking....

Same reason you always should put the better tires on the rear if you have a mis-matched set Link

But, that said I wouldn't want to go against the advice of the car manual (other poster says front wheel's only).

Of course in really slippery conditions chains on all four would be better (if the drive line can handle the extra load)

If you get chains avoid the ladder type, and go for the "X" or diamond type. Did one multi hour drip down a ruapehu access road in the back seat of a RWD ute as a child (with ladder chains on the rear only), when the tail slid out, on a slight side slope (above massive drop), due to the tire coming to rest between the rugs of the ladder. driver drove forwards a touch so the chains rested in a different spot.

I would consider "autosocks" on all four wheels, given your clearance issues. (you would only bother to put them on if conditions are really bad).

Whatever chain option you go for I think you can count on using it only very rarely on your legacy.

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#1329645 23-Jun-2015 08:05

SWMBO's MX5 couldn't make it out the driveway yesterday. Slippery wet snow over smooth asphalt, and a slight slope. She gave up - and got me to try. Pulls on handbrake, and whoops - the locked rear wheels just slide as soon as you take your foot off the foot brake, and it starts sliding off downhill. I've seen plenty of light AWD cars strike the same problem - particularly trying to go down skifield roads when it iced up again late in the day and the drivers have a feeling of over-confidence, as they got uphill without chains in the same conditions just fine. Once all wheels have zero traction - no technology will save you. Keeps Q'town panelbeaters in business over winter fixing small AWD Audis and Subarus.

The MX5 has a torsen LSD - which is a very nice thing most of the time, but truly terrible on ice like that - it just locks/unlocks in rapid cycles as one wheel will start slipping, then when it grabs, the diff locks up, the car lurches, then one wheel starts slipping again. Very nasty. Not recommended as a ski-vehicle - even if there was room to put the skis.

geoffwnz

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#1329691 23-Jun-2015 08:52

The biggest difference is between ice and snow. In snow you have a reasonable amount of grip available and the tyres can bite into it if you play nice.
With ice, all bets are off. Rubber does not grip ice no matter how many wheels are being driven. AWD and 4WD have an advantage in slippery conditions that hopefully at least one or two wheels are on something with a little more grip but when you get significantly frozen conditions and all 4 wheels are on the ice then you're in no better state than a 2WD.
I haven't had to have the pleasure of putting chains on my Subaru as it's actually a rally car, the diff lock function has been useful in some icy conditions when others were fitting chains. The key is still to drive very gently and don't do anything sudden.

MotorDrive Rallying

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#1329717 23-Jun-2015 09:23

Jase2985: you cant compare that, he doesn't have chains on the front or even on the rear and it isnt an AWD. you are comparing an apple with a watermelon.

70%+ of your breaking is done in the front.

when 70% of the braking is applied to the front, that is exactly when the rear will fishtail out and send people into a slide on the ice.NOTE ice and snow are completely different beasts. on a downhill icy slope you want no more than 50% of stopping on the front ... feather the pedal and pray like mad, use engine braking only if possible, and complete magic when the 4WD has low range ...

i suppose chains on the front means if the rears come loose then there is drive in the front to pull the car straight and put the rears back into place. so i guess that's why chains on front works. but only when there is grip. if not then there will be regret of not having 4 chains.

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#1329718 23-Jun-2015 09:24

I got myself into trouble with an AWD "rally" car many years ago, Mazda GTX, going up the Remarkables. (It was an almost new car at the time - so I'm talking decades ago). Road signs were for chains - except 4WD. With the diff-lock on it was great, even when a bit icy, but got worse as we got higher - so decided to stop and fit the chains I had in the boot. Same problem as with the MX5 yesterday - except worse - with the diff-lock on, all 4 wheels couldn't hold the car from sliding backwards downhill even though it wasn't very steep - there was no possibility to fit the chains. To do a u-turn to get lower down the road would have been a very dodgy proposition indeed. The only option was to get moving forward again. We made it all the way up - but I'm not making that mistake again - it's a big drop off the side there.
I like my Safari truck for those conditions. Lots of dead weight, ground-clearance, and a PTO winch in case you do stuff up (and to rescue Subarus).

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#1329719 23-Jun-2015 09:25

Scott3:
joker97: ....as opposed to all terrain tyres with mega thread.....

Don't confuse All terrain tires / meaty tread with winter tires. Winter tires have softer rubber, and heaps of tiny little groves to bite into snow and ice (Google images winter tire tread). Some off road tires (especially sand) are designed to float over sand, when what you need on snow / ice is to cut down into it.

no didn't confuse them. on snowy roads chunky thread always does better than road threads all things being equal. still no match for snow tyres of course.

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#1329726 23-Jun-2015 09:31

Scott3:
I would consider "autosocks" on all four wheels, given your clearance issues. (you would only bother to put them on if conditions are really bad)..

yes that is an option. not as durable as chains i would have thought.

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#1329809 23-Jun-2015 11:00

Maybe think about something like this Autosock

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#1329812 23-Jun-2015 11:03

i just went to aliexpress and ordered 4 socks. looks like they're nowhere near as good as chains but on the internet i get 4 for less than half the price of 2 if bought local!

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#1329814 23-Jun-2015 11:05

am still looking at appropriate chains ... bcos ... you can never be too prepared! (i live on the hills ... and when it freezes it scares the crap out of me. once alomst got colided by a subaru do a 900 (degrees) across my face while i was parked putting chains on. that was about 5 mins after seeing 2 cyclists go down the hill, and 2 friends crossing the road to greet (or laugh at?) me.

Fred99

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#1329827 23-Jun-2015 11:34

joker97: am still looking at appropriate chains ... bcos ... you can never be too prepared! (i live on the hills ... and when it freezes it scares the crap out of me. once alomst got colided by a subaru do a 900 (degrees) across my face while i was parked putting chains on. that was about 5 mins after seeing 2 cyclists go down the hill, and 2 friends crossing the road to greet (or laugh at?) me.

Where about on the hills? Dunedin?
I'm on the Port hills in Chch - for the past 25 years.
Yesterday morning we had a problem - only because SWMBO wanted to drive her car which had been in the garage all night, rather than sweep the snow off the window of my 4wd which had been parked outside. The last time we had a problem was in 1992 - the snow since then seems to always miss us - blows over and gets dumped on the flat, causing media-hyped general panic far in excess of any real problem.
It would have been nice to drive around smugly yesterday in the 4WD with a placard in the rear window "see I really do need a gas guzzling monster 4WD truck", but the reality is that it was only for about an hour, then it was gone.

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#1329828 23-Jun-2015 11:47

It's pretty rare in Dunedin you could use chains on the paved roads. Usually the issue is ice, not snow.

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#1329836 23-Jun-2015 12:22

lxsw20: It's pretty rare in Dunedin you could use chains on the paved roads. Usually the issue is ice, not snow.

yes Dunedin, it ices up around 1-2x a year. that's when idiots in Subarus and SUVs think they're invincible and cause damage to others!

that day i stopped putting the chains and just turned around and drove home! literally as soon as my mate walked across the road after saying hello, this crazy subaru came flying past and hit 3 cars before it was stopped by the kerb and a RAV4 (parked)

so i still have not used chains till today! but I did sell the SUV :) and got a Subaru lol. only to find the manual says don't use chains - then put my hand round the wheel and found out why

MikeAqua

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#1330018 23-Jun-2015 16:00

True story (well it was in the ODT) - when I was living in Dunedin in the mid 90's, a grit truck lost traction on Stuart street up near the pool complex and slid down to the Octagon narrowly missing Scotland's favourite bard. The driver was able to slow his slide with the snow blade, which also helpfully knocked cars off to the side, including one being driven by a gentleman called Isitolo Maka.

Mike

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