Removed politically charged post! 

Sorry GZ.

Please keep that sort of comment in the Politics forum.

Shindig:

 

Is it that national are in bed with the petrol companies, so much that they are purposely making EV ownership expensive. 

 

I don't trust any of them.

 

Election donation returns for 2023 are on the Elections Commission website. It does not take much to buy favourable policy in this fine land of ours.

https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/political-parties-in-new-zealand/party-donations-and-loans-by-year/

Let's leave the politics out of this thread @fastbike and @shindig

Ohh sorry!

Post edited. 

Is EV ownership expensive relative to ICE?

No subsidies on either to purchase.

For road user tax, one pays fuel tax at the pump (ICE), the other pays via road user chargers.

Seems pretty balanced to me. Maybe, taking into account service costs over life, EV have the slight edge?

Note to Mod, no politics in this post, just a cost comparison (-;

dafman:

Is EV ownership expensive relative to ICE?

No subsidies on either to purchase.

For road user tax, one pays fuel tax at the pump (ICE), the other pays via road user chargers.

Seems pretty balanced to me. Maybe, taking into account service costs over life, EV have the slight edge?

Note to Mod, no politics in this post, just a cost comparison (-;

I wonder how the central drivers seat will be accepted. Personally I don't think it's all that practical from an operational perspective. 

One issue is being able to reach barrier arm keypads at yard entry points 

shk292:

dafman:

 

Is EV ownership expensive relative to ICE?

 

 

 

No subsidies on either to purchase.

 

 

 

For road user tax, one pays fuel tax at the pump (ICE), the other pays via road user chargers.

 

 

 

Seems pretty balanced to me. Maybe, taking into account service costs over life, EV have the slight edge?

 

 

 

Note to Mod, no politics in this post, just a cost comparison (-;

 

The big difference is depreciation. EVs only seem less expensive if you ignore that. I'm sure that as the technology matures, depreciation will revert to normal for these cars and their true cost of ownership will be affordable.

Much of the true cost of our happy motoring are the externalities passed to society to either pick up or kick down the road. Some of those costs such as air pollution related early mortality is borne by society, others such as failure to meet our Paris commitments has been kicked down a road which is becoming a whole lot shorter as we have a multi billion dollar bill coming due in 5 years for our excess emissions. I've seen figures of $20B ! By way of contrast $29B runs the whole of the health system.

If the government of the day tries to renege on the commitments, there are penalty clauses in our free trade deals with EU and UK which impose tariffs. So we can continue the way we are and whinge when the inevitable happens or we can get on with the plan and take advantage of cleaner cheaper driving. Rewiring Aotearoa has a good paper on this.

https://www.rewiring.nz/electrification-guides/electric-cars

shk292:

dafman:

 

Is EV ownership expensive relative to ICE?

 

 

 

No subsidies on either to purchase.

 

 

 

For road user tax, one pays fuel tax at the pump (ICE), the other pays via road user chargers.

 

 

 

Seems pretty balanced to me. Maybe, taking into account service costs over life, EV have the slight edge?

 

 

 

Note to Mod, no politics in this post, just a cost comparison (-;

 

The big difference is depreciation. EVs only seem less expensive if you ignore that. I'm sure that as the technology matures, depreciation will revert to normal for these cars and their true cost of ownership will be affordable.

You only wear the depreciation when you sell it. I typically buy a car at 2 years old and drive it for 10. The depreciation is never that bad on on a per km basis.

johno1234:

You only wear the depreciation when you sell it. I typically buy a car at 2 years old and drive it for 10. The depreciation is never that bad on on a per km basis.

 

fastbike:

 

Much of the true cost of our happy motoring are the externalities passed to society to either pick up or kick down the road. Some of those costs such as air pollution related early mortality is borne by society, others such as failure to meet our Paris commitments has been kicked down a road which is becoming a whole lot shorter as we have a multi billion dollar bill coming due in 5 years for our excess emissions. I've seen figures of $20B ! By way of contrast $29B runs the whole of the health system.

 

If the government of the day tries to renege on the commitments, there are penalty clauses in our free trade deals with EU and UK which impose tariffs. So we can continue the way we are and whinge when the inevitable happens or we can get on with the plan and take advantage of cleaner cheaper driving. Rewiring Aotearoa has a good paper on this.

 

https://www.rewiring.nz/electrification-guides/electric-cars

 

 

 

Tell me, is New Zealand the only "kicking the can down the road". I expect not. I suspect a few of those countries looking to impose the tarriffs will need to look pretty close to home first. I don't see too many countries paying higher tarriffs. I do see unrest/uprisings if countries are forced to pay. The average person in the street could be badly impacted. Some of these actions have the ability to take away the ability for some people to put food on the table.

Sure we have to find better ways to reduce enviromental impacts but there are also the basic needs that have to be met. I fear some of theses measures will have consequences that some people will not be prepared to accept.

The measurement of the success in meeting emmisions targets is smoke and mirrors. In fact it is a joke with countries, New Zealand included, "exporting" their emmissons. In some cases the export process results in far greater emmissions than would have been the case if nothing had been done. I don't think there's going to be a practical way to measure what a country has actually achieved.

Technofreak:

 

fastbike:

 

Much of the true cost of our happy motoring are the externalities passed to society to either pick up or kick down the road. Some of those costs such as air pollution related early mortality is borne by society, others such as failure to meet our Paris commitments has been kicked down a road which is becoming a whole lot shorter as we have a multi billion dollar bill coming due in 5 years for our excess emissions. I've seen figures of $20B ! By way of contrast $29B runs the whole of the health system.

 

If the government of the day tries to renege on the commitments, there are penalty clauses in our free trade deals with EU and UK which impose tariffs. So we can continue the way we are and whinge when the inevitable happens or we can get on with the plan and take advantage of cleaner cheaper driving. Rewiring Aotearoa has a good paper on this.

 

https://www.rewiring.nz/electrification-guides/electric-cars

 

 

 

 

Sure we have to find better ways to reduce enviromental impacts but there are also the basic needs that have to be met. I fear some of theses measures will have consequences that some people will not be prepared to accept.

 

We are seeing the consequences of not addressing climate change today and the consequences are ones that are happening without any option of being prepared to accept.

We must continue to implement at pace the measures that we know do reduce emissions. One of the proven ways is to stop burning coal, oil and gas. Of course there are consequences to this but we can work out how to manage that and the management of such inconveniences is the better choice that having to deal with the sudden and unplanned impacts of fires, storms etc that we are seeing regularly today.

SaltyNZ:

johno1234:

 

You only wear the depreciation when you sell it. I typically buy a car at 2 years old and drive it for 10. The depreciation is never that bad on on a per km basis.

 

Yeah my last two cars were sold to the wreckers. I don’t expect depreciation to be a massive issue.

I don't think you've really experienced depreciation until you've owned a Euro. 
I bought my Volvo for $14k, at 5 years old (original sticker price new was $110k) and sold it 8 years later for $2500, shortly after spending $8k on it for critical repairs. 
I would have kept it, but the gearbox was the next on the list of things that my mechanic really didn't want to have to look at...and I got a company car. 

Technofreak:

 

Sure we have to find better ways to reduce enviromental impacts but there are also the basic needs that have to be met. I fear some of theses measures will have consequences that some people will not be prepared to accept.

 

I find it quite weird that people refuse to accept what is happening right in front of them, and insist that mother nature has to come to bargaining table so we are not inconvenienced.

Insurance companies are the canary in the coal mine here. Already they are introducing risk based pricing, the next thing we'll see are hugely increased premiums for areas most at risk from a changing climate. This will then be followed by withdrawal of cover, leaving to massive stranded assets : no insurance = no mortgage. How governments react to this will be interesting.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378024001353

In case you are time poor, here's the summary.

•  

   

  • Reinsurers are often overlooked producers and translators of climate change knowledge.
  • Unique perspective linking question of climate change to real-life damages and losses.
  • Damage and risk perspective on climate change began to emerge in the 1970s.
  • Internal sensemaking highlights the thorny nature of interpreting climate-related data.
  • Analysis draws on expert interviews, confidential archival sources and text analysis.