RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

1 | ... | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | ... | 79

202 posts

Master Geek

#3400370 6-Aug-2025 14:47

mattwnz:

I imagine there will be cameras and automated systems to catch anyone not paying, and then instant fines. I don't think the current system has any of this. I wonder if Australia is going to follow NZ.

So... inflate the price the of RUC charge to now cover cameras everywhere?

scuwp

3888 posts

Uber Geek

#3400372 6-Aug-2025 14:50

On2or3wheels:

mattwnz:

I imagine there will be cameras and automated systems to catch anyone not paying, and then instant fines. I don't think the current system has any of this. I wonder if Australia is going to follow NZ.

So... inflate the price the of RUC charge to now cover cameras everywhere?

The camera's are already there, it's just the back office that needs to be set up, and a little bit of tinkering with the legislation. The new "safety" camera's could do this, police ANPR cameras, commercial vehicle inspection site camera's. Digital monitoring and enforcement beyond red lights and speeding is inevitable.

NZTA already send bills out to vehicle owners that are behind, a ticket would be a simple addition.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

SaltyNZ

8241 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3400374 6-Aug-2025 14:51

KiwiSurfer:

Keep it in house IMHO and keep it simple. Waka Kotahi has done well with online regos, tolling, etc so I'm confident they can build a good system for e-RUCs.

Privatise everything, of course. *shrug*

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

On2or3wheels

202 posts

Master Geek

#3400375 6-Aug-2025 14:55

richms:

They are not plug in so pay no RUC at this time.

Right, thanks.

everettpsycho

615 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3400377 6-Aug-2025 15:02

KiwiSurfer:

richms:

As usual the reddit crowd are all moaning about this because of the private sector being able to sell RUCs and oh no the poor people.

I don't understand why it has to be outsoured to the private sector? I'll be more expensive as the private sector will only get onboard if they get a cut of the money.

Keep it in house IMHO and keep it simple. Waka Kotahi has done well with online regos, tolling, etc so I'm confident they can build a good system for e-RUCs.

I don't have an issue with private companies if they are an option and not the only option. I'd be happy to be allowed to just buy and comply in a simple method like we do now from nzta or whoever as a method but have the option of things like electronic versions, black boxes or using an app to automate it from 3rd parties. Feel like keeping an official option in place will stop private companies taking advantage of the situation and over inflating the cost, but some would be happy to pay for the convenience a third party might come up with.

insane

3242 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3400379 6-Aug-2025 15:03

Tinfoil hat wearing statement: Feels like a step closer to enforcing digital telemetry that the govt can see where you're going, who you visited, when, how fast, whether you should be sent an efine for your driving. Govt digital currency accepted as the sole payment method :D

Back to reality - without too much thought, it makes sense to overhaul the current system.

On2or3wheels

202 posts

Master Geek

#3400380 6-Aug-2025 15:03

scuwp:

The camera's are already there, it's just the back office that needs to be set up, and a little bit of tinkering with the legislation. The new "safety" camera's could do this, police ANPR cameras, commercial vehicle inspection site camera's. Digital monitoring and enforcement beyond red lights and speeding is inevitable, operating without a current RUC license would be simple.

NZTA already send bills out to vehicle owners that are behind, a ticket would be a simple addition.

Unless they track you 100% of the time, how would they know how far you've travelled since your last top-up.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Senecio

2718 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3400381 6-Aug-2025 15:07

mattwnz:

Yes it is pretty much the next governments problem and I can't see any future government changing this move to RUC's, considering most people seem to agree with it. Even the Stuff poll is over 50% in agreement with National on this. I can however see some tweaks coming for RUCs in terms of weight, mainly because the old system was more setup for commercial vehicles and most of those were either relatively heavy cars/utes, or trucks. It doesn't take into considering the different sizes of other vehicles. I wouldn't for example expect a motorbike to pay the same RUC as a large Ford Ranger Ute, solely because the amount of wear and it's footprint on the roads is going to be less with a motorbike.

Unless the legislation is changed then motorbikes will still be excempt from RUC as they don't meet the definition of having an axle. Electric motorbikes and moped do not pay RUC today.

richms

28215 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3400382 6-Aug-2025 15:11

On2or3wheels:

Unless they track you 100% of the time, how would they know how far you've travelled since your last top-up.

They don't, but if you have been sent an infringement for driving with lapsed RUCs, and the car is being driven on the road then clearly that is something they can automate the issuing of an infringement for. They already will sometimes check the odometer at random breath test and other random block the road up and check rego and wof popups. I also know of people that have been asked to drive 1km down the road and get re-checked that their odo is still working.

Richard rich.ms

mattwnz

20180 posts

Uber Geek

#3400398 6-Aug-2025 15:59

insane:

Tinfoil hat wearing statement: Feels like a step closer to enforcing digital telemetry that the govt can see where you're going, who you visited, when, how fast, whether you should be sent an efine for your driving. Govt digital currency accepted as the sole payment method :D

Back to reality - without too much thought, it makes sense to overhaul the current system.

They could do this via cameras and license plate and vehicle recognition, as well as using AI. They don't need tracking in cars at all, although I am sure that some cars store a lot of data, as do navigation apps. Sometimes it is scary when they show you all your stats for the last month and where you have visited etc. AI is going to change a lot in this space IMO

mattwnz

20180 posts

Uber Geek

#3400401 6-Aug-2025 16:14

Senecio:

mattwnz:

Yes it is pretty much the next governments problem and I can't see any future government changing this move to RUC's, considering most people seem to agree with it. Even the Stuff poll is over 50% in agreement with National on this. I can however see some tweaks coming for RUCs in terms of weight, mainly because the old system was more setup for commercial vehicles and most of those were either relatively heavy cars/utes, or trucks. It doesn't take into considering the different sizes of other vehicles. I wouldn't for example expect a motorbike to pay the same RUC as a large Ford Ranger Ute, solely because the amount of wear and it's footprint on the roads is going to be less with a motorbike.

Unless the legislation is changed then motorbikes will still be excempt from RUC as they don't meet the definition of having an axle. Electric motorbikes and moped do not pay RUC today.

I would think it will be changed, as they want to ensure all powered vehicle users pay their fair share. I do wonder if they will try and charge E-bike users. Probably not if i it is under a certain speed/ weight / power, and those users are actually reducing the load and congestion on the roads, saving the government money on needing additional infrastructure. Now the government need to do something about how council rates get charged so everyone pays their fair share and infrastructure and services, including local roads, can be funded properly.

Scott3

3982 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3400403 6-Aug-2025 16:37

mattwnz:

Yes it is pretty much the next governments problem and I can't see any future government changing this move to RUC's, considering most people seem to agree with it. Even the Stuff poll is over 50% in agreement with National on this. I can however see some tweaks coming for RUCs in terms of weight, mainly because the old system was more setup for commercial vehicles and most of those were either relatively heavy cars/utes, or trucks. It doesn't take into considering the different sizes of other vehicles. I wouldn't for example expect a motorbike to pay the same RUC as a large Ford Ranger Ute, solely because the amount of wear and it's footprint on the roads is going to be less with a motorbike.

Agree this does seem likely to happen regardless of political change.

Stuff poll (self selected online poll limitations apply) is sitting at 22% against & to 53% for.

Seems there is widespread acknowledgement that modern hybrids are so efficient, that per liter of fuel burnt is no longer an appropriate way to tax them.

And this can be played mutiple ways politically.

Right learning parties can point to aqua's getting a free ride vs Utes, and thirster car's

Left leaning parties can point to wealthy people who can afford say a modern rav4 hybrid paying around half towards towards the roads compared to a family with 15+ year old Rav4 being regressive.

Environmental parties can point to hybrids getting treated better than EV's under current rules being adverse from an emissions perspective.

Biggest concern in the stuff comments. seems to be if petrol retailers will actually pass on the full 70c drop in RUC's. A study could easily be done on the scrapping of the auckland regional fuel tax, and intervention applied to that retail market, if it is found that they did not in that case.

As hybrids continue to get more common and more efficient, fuel tax revenue will continue to drop, already it is too low to fund our road network, so changes are needed.

Should note that we are absolutely a world leader leader in this space. Already our RUC system is used a case study a lot. Rolling this out to all vehicles will make us a case study for the rest of the world. Petrol taxes are kind broken as a way to collect money for roading globally, and many locations are resorting to super crude way's to deal with this like steep annual registration fees for EV's

--------

Tempting to go one or two step's further though. Might was well integrate our RUC system with the road toll system, which is currently has admin costs in the area of 30%... And tempting to go beyond this and go for full congestion charging in our major cities.

Latter is politically challenging of course, but it would be great for our economy to just price our way out of congestion.

--------

Regarding motorbikes, footprint of a vehicle in operation on the road when traveling at speed is almost entirely following distance (and space to the left and right). So I don't feel there is a basis for a differential rate on that basis.

Wear of all light vehicles on roads designed to take trucks is near negligible, so basically light vehicles are just paying for the provision of roads and the space they use. (and their share of say weather related damage etc.)

Given this, it is hard to build a case to exempt motorbikes.

Senecio:

Unless the legislation is changed then motorbikes will still be excempt from RUC as they don't meet the definition of having an axle. Electric motorbikes and moped do not pay RUC today.

That exemption is specific to electric vehicles, and applies to all vehicles under 1000 kG GVM (fully laden weight). Nothing to do with number of wheels or axle configuration (but other than bikes and trikes, vehicles that lightweight are rare).

https://nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/road-user-charges/ruc-exemptions/

Should note the government added this exception after the consultation period, and never justified well why.

If it was a temporary exemption until electric motorbike reach 2% of the motorbike fleet I would support it, but I don't think there is a basis for the permanent exemption that was granted to EV motorbikes.

Scott3

3982 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3400404 6-Aug-2025 16:44

mattwnz:

I would think it will be changed, as they want to ensure all powered vehicle users pay their fair share. I do wonder if they will try and charge E-bike users. Probably not if i it is under a certain speed/ weight / power, and those users are actually reducing the load and congestion on the roads, saving the government money on needing additional infrastructure. Now the government need to do something about how council rates get charged so everyone pays their fair share and infrastructure and services, including local roads, can be funded properly.

e-bikes (which have a 300W limit in NZ) are currently declared not to be a motor vehicle. I don't see this changing.

The whole topic of how to deal with electric personable mobility devices not currently covered under exemptions need to be delt with in parliament at some point.

Currently all electric skateboards, >300W ebikes, >300W escooters, segways, uniwheels, hover / balance boards etc are unregistered motor vehicles when used on the road. But they are becoming very common. In generally they are closer to push bikes and pedestrians than car's.

In general, having common things illegal, and the police turn a blind eye to it is not a great policy setting. Makes it very easy to pick on somebody if they feel like it.

And I think small e-mobility should be encouraged. Generally we should be moving away from needing a 1500kg SUV to take an 80kg person to the office 4 km away....

mattwnz

20180 posts

Uber Geek

#3400405 6-Aug-2025 16:46

I have noticed that some vehicle users want cyclists to pay for using the roads too. But as they use the road shoulder, they are not contributing to congestion or road wear. Infact they are reducing congestion due to another vehicle not being on the road. There is potentially a case for pedestrians and cyclists to be charged to use pavements / cycle lanes, but then again they are reducing congestion on roads, and potentially reducing demand on the health system, as cyclists and pedestrians/walkers tend to be fitter and healthier. Plus they will be paying for local roads/footpaths/cycle lanes in their rates anyway.

Scott3

3982 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3400406 6-Aug-2025 16:50

KiwiSurfer:

richms:

As usual the reddit crowd are all moaning about this because of the private sector being able to sell RUCs and oh no the poor people.

I don't understand why it has to be outsoured to the private sector? I'll be more expensive as the private sector will only get onboard if they get a cut of the money.

Keep it in house IMHO and keep it simple. Waka Kotahi has done well with online regos, tolling, etc so I'm confident they can build a good system for e-RUCs.

In some cases, car's have integrated telemetry, which logs details like the odometer to the cloud.

Allowing a third party to manage RUC's would mean such car brands could integrate RUC into that system, and just automatically bill weekly / monthly. Either for actually milage done, or to maintain a user selected buffer (if the government wants it strictly prepay). Would remove the manual step, and the risk of not noticing one needs to buy more RUC's.

I think it is important there is a state run system in Parallel, (like there is for eRoad), to ensure drivers who don't want to deal with a third party don't have to.

1 | ... | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | ... | 79