Nissan LEAF - General

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#1883883 15-Oct-2017 18:26

Thanks for the replies. As a follow up, I made it back to Tuakau from Whangerei with three stops, using no more than three dots except on the massive hills coming out of Whangerei.

The ChargeNet QC at Jacks Four Square in Kaiwaka was a Godsend and an essential component (both ways) as my 82% SoH 24kw gen 1 (X) had exactly 7kms on the GoM by the time I reached it on the return trip (after dipping nearly 10kms below the GPS predicted “distance remaining” several times).

Another opportunistic QC at the Warkworth BP (33KMs o the GoM) during a meal stop meant I had an easy drive through the central city to Greenlane where 20mins (and two coffees) got me the remaining range I needed to get back home.

The WaF factor dropped considerably on the trip as she was biting at the bit on our way up (to meet an ICE achievable deadline after a later than expected start) and a late bedtime (for the kids) on our return due to the extra hour added.

“I love my car, but I think it needs to have at least a 250km range to be a proper replacement.” She said, after insisting we use my ICE next time “else I’ll just catch the bus” 🙄

On the plus side, $21kms for a return trip of 500kms, and the likelihood of ‘inheriting’ the leaf in a few years as I think we’ll definitely be getting a Model3 in a few years when the first ones hit the second hand market 👍

MarkH67

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#1883914 15-Oct-2017 18:57

PhantomNVD:

“I love my car, but I think it needs to have at least a 250km range to be a proper replacement.”

I have no plans to go changing cars every 2 years. I'm planning on running my 24kWh Leaf until I can get a '60kWh minimum' EV at a reasonable price. For best value for money that might be a 2019 60kWh Leaf as a second hand Japanese import in 2021.

The information I've read suggests that the LG Chem battery used for the 60kWh Leaf will have a thermal management system making the battery a bit bigger.

I will consider in 2021 whether I really need to trade up my car, if I wait longer there will be better again EVs available. But on longer trips the 24kWh is in some ways a bit of a nuisance. 60kWh would provide around 350km range which would allow the car to out-range my bladder and I do believe that my car should be the one held up by me rather than me being held up by my car.

gzt

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#1883917 15-Oct-2017 19:00

Question for owners, what is the in car Bluetooth/phone integration like for use and conversation? Any good?

PhantomNVD

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#1883943 15-Oct-2017 19:05

MarkH67:
PhantomNVD:

“I love my car, but I think it needs to have at least a 250km range to be a proper replacement.”she said”

I have no plans to go changing cars every 2 years. I'm planning on running my 24kWh Leaf until I can get a '60kWh minimum' EV at a reasonable price. For best value for money that might be a 2019 60kWh Leaf as a second hand Japanese import in 2021.

The information I've read suggests that the LG Chem battery used for the 60kWh Leaf will have a thermal management system making the battery a bit bigger.

I will consider in 2021 whether I really need to trade up my car, if I wait longer there will be better again EVs available. But on longer trips the 24kWh is in some ways a bit of a nuisance. 60kWh would provide around 350km range which would allow the car to out-range my bladder and I do believe that my car should be the one held up by me rather than me being held up by my car.

Yes, but the piece I bolded is the main piece you left out!

SWMBO is the one who got the Leaf as she does the big commute (mine is only 10kms each way), and so your statement about “trading up every 2 years” doesn’t really apply. My ICE (a ‘98 Corolla) is long due a replacement anyway, so if she can be upgraded to a 40-60kw model at that time I’d happily have her current Leaf as it would suit my general use even at 50% SoH! 😉

Linuxluver

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#1883946 15-Oct-2017 19:16

happyfunball:

I fast charged it on the dealers advice and took it for a drive. At home checked again, the SOH dropped to 86%, not sure what to think. The dealer is offering EV insurance which will cover sudden battery deterioration, does anyone have experience with that kind of insurance?

I like the car and have already had a tow bar installed so reluctant to give it up unless I know whats going on, but don't want a dud battery.

My 30kWh 2016 LEAF has 42,400km and my battery is 95% SoH. I've done 399 QCs and 571 L2 charges....so closing on 1000 charges.

Your battery just shouldn't be that sad.........but if it's been left for a long time on 100% charge or was really hot all the time.....or both.....then maybe some additional degradation.

It's puzzling.....how low will it go?

Your battery temps are virtually ideal......so on the face of it I'd say the car has been fiddled with. No way should you lose 6%-7% battery capacity in days. That smells bad.

I'd want to return the car for a full refund. You haven't received what you paid for.

edit: One thing to check.....have the Leafspy settings been set to a 2016 30kWh LEAF?

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happyfunball

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#1883963 15-Oct-2017 20:16

Yes LeafSpy is set correctly. According to mynissanleaf forum this is unfortunately quite common with 2016 30kw models. The common clue among reported cases is that cars manufactured before March 2016 have this issue. Much debate about heat and charge state but no consensus there.

When was yours manufactured?

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Linuxluver

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#1884005 15-Oct-2017 21:02

gzt: Question for owners, what is the in car Bluetooth/phone integration like for use and conversation? Any good?

I connect my 2016 UK Leaf with my phone (SGS8+) via bluetooth. My car is a "Tekna" trim level, so has the 7-speaker Bose sound system....and it sounds nice.

Usually, I just open Google Play on my phone and start a "station" or choose a playlist (mine or public). If I turn the audio off....the music stops. If I turn it back on an hour later, the song that was interrupted in the Google Play Music will resume right where it left off. If a call comes in while the music is playing, it fades down....paused.....and then comes back up when the call ends.

If I turn audio off, but the phone rings, the car will handle the call in hands-free mode. Controls are on both the head unit and on my steering wheel. Volume is adjustable. I've never had anyone say they can't hear me or don't understand what I'm saying. It just works.

However....if I am using Google Nav and the Audio in the car is off, I won't get any voice directions unless I turn the car audio on.

I can't speak for other Leaf models. But this is how it works in mine.

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Linuxluver

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#1884006 15-Oct-2017 21:08

happyfunball: Yes LeafSpy is set correctly. According to mynissanleaf forum this is unfortunately quite common with 2016 30kw models. The common clue among reported cases is that cars manufactured before March 2016 have this issue. Much debate about heat and charge state but no consensus there.

When was yours manufactured?

You have to be careful......that's a US forum and they will be mostly talking about US-made Leafs some of which will be operated in conditions we rarely or never see here: extreme cold or extreme heat.

Mine was first registered in the UK in March 2016. So certainly made before then.....but it was made at Sunderland in the UK. Shipped to NZ in early September, arrived late October.

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happyfunball

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#1884007 15-Oct-2017 21:15

Linuxluver:

I can't speak for other Leaf models. But this is how it works in mine.

This is exactly how it works on a ex-Jap X or G model, via Bluetooth with an iPhone. Alternately, I can also plug my phone in via a USB/Lightning cable and it shows up on the NAV unit under the 'iPod' source instead of Bluetooth. Calls still work exactly the same.

The only difference between iPod mode and Bluetooth seems to be album artwork shown on the screen when playing music in iPod mode but not on Bluetooth. Works for podcasts too, basically any artwork shown on the iPhone when playing audio will show up on the screen in iPod mode but not bluetooth.

iPod mode also charges the phone of course but sometimes I don't even bother to take the phone out of my pocket so it switches to Bluetooth mode when it pairs.

Its a very good head unit (on X and G models). On S models, its not great but you can swap it out for a CarPlay system or Android Auto, which should be even better.

There is also a very strange mode on mine called 'MusicBox' which basically makes a copy of CD's you put in the drive so you can play them without actually having the disk in the drive anymore. Mines filled with Japanese pop music :)

On an iPhone, Siri works well through the hands free microphones, so you can just press the home button on the phone for a bit and the Siri beep happens, so you can control playlists/tracks or dictate text messages, whatever Siri stuff you want. Seems to be a good microphone for dictation. I usually just use my Apple Watch though as it seems safer than touching my phone while driving and I always know exactly where my watch is, and it can be used without looking at it :)

happyfunball

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#1884034 15-Oct-2017 21:35

Linuxluver:

You have to be careful......that's a US forum and they will be mostly talking about US-made Leafs some of which will be operated in conditions we rarely or never see here: extreme cold or extreme heat.

Mine was first registered in the UK in March 2016. So certainly made before then.....but it was made at Sunderland in the UK. Shipped to NZ in early September, arrived late October.

You're right about that forum being North American, but they definitely have debated the heat/charge issue. Plenty of Leafs in temperate zones having issues despite low heat and careful charging. Certainly the 30kw batteries seem to do worse in heat than the earlier 'Lizard' ones. Also strange differences in readings from Leafs driven lightly and hard. Seems the onboard computer estimates much higher health after hard driving/usage, which doesn't make much sense. Also some debate over whether there is any correlation between *real* range reduction and SOH level. Some claim same real world range despite sudden drops in SOH. One user ran a test between 2 leafs, one belonging to his wife used in town, and one taken on the highway. Town Leaf suffered sharp decline in SOH until taken on the highway for a week, then it suddenly got 9% better :) That indicates a buggy algorithm rather than healthier battery. We know usage *must* reduce capacity on Li-ion, but the algorithm used by Nissan displays the opposite.

This is all complicated by the fact that nobody wants to run out of juice. If it was petrol, we could run our cars empty and just use a jerry-can. We'd figure out the real world range very quickly and see if the Nissan/LeafSpy algorithms are accurate. But who really wants to test out the range of their EV? Not me thats for sure. We are relying on an algorithm which is an estimate on top of estimates. Even the charge level of a battery is just an estimate, complicated by the fact that the 30kw never charges to 100% as it has a buffer at the top.

If it is a bad batch of batteries it may be limited to only Japanese Leafs and exclude UK ones (not sure where their batteries came from). Or it could be just an algorithm issue, not a real range issue.

I'll be taking my car to the dealer who wants to run some more scientific tests on the car to see what the real energy input and output is, as he's importing these and really wants to solve the problem. Demand for 30kw models is just going to get higher and we need answers.

Aredwood

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#1884045 15-Oct-2017 22:04

It looks like you might just have to charge to 100% then drive it until the battery completely runs out. Lithium ion batteries have a relatively constant terminal voltage as you discharge them. It is only when the battery gets close to being completely flat, that the terminal voltage starts dropping by any great amount. Because of this, the battery controller measures both current in and current out from the battery. But if the battery never gets run completely flat, the controller will struggle to accurately learn what the current battery capacity is.

Doing a drive from completely full to empty allows the controller to accurately learn the available battery capacity. So it can better calculate the current state of health. And check the individual cell voltages when the battery is low. Watch out for any big differences between cells.

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happyfunball

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#1884048 15-Oct-2017 22:12

Aredwood:

It looks like you might just have to charge to 100% then drive it until the battery completely runs out.

The only way I'm doing that is on a dyno machine. No way I'm bricking my car on public roads :)

Hopefully the dealer can do that in a safe way.

Linuxluver

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#1884067 15-Oct-2017 23:43

happyfunball:

Aredwood:

It looks like you might just have to charge to 100% then drive it until the battery completely runs out.

The only way I'm doing that is on a dyno machine. No way I'm bricking my car on public roads :)

Hopefully the dealer can do that in a safe way.

The way to do it is go for a drive...and arrive home on maybe 8% - still about 16km worth - and then drive around the block a wee bit.......and when you get to the 3 dashes (about 10km / 5% left) you park up in the car port and turn the heater on to use up some power....and then you can run it right down to turtle in your car port. It might take an hour....but no going flat on a public road. :-)

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k14

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#1884114 16-Oct-2017 08:39

MarkH67:

I have no plans to go changing cars every 2 years. I'm planning on running my 24kWh Leaf until I can get a '60kWh minimum' EV at a reasonable price. For best value for money that might be a 2019 60kWh Leaf as a second hand Japanese import in 2021.

The information I've read suggests that the LG Chem battery used for the 60kWh Leaf will have a thermal management system making the battery a bit bigger.

I will consider in 2021 whether I really need to trade up my car, if I wait longer there will be better again EVs available. But on longer trips the 24kWh is in some ways a bit of a nuisance. 60kWh would provide around 350km range which would allow the car to out-range my bladder and I do believe that my car should be the one held up by me rather than me being held up by my car.

It does make me wonder what a 2011 Leaf will be doing in 5 years time? Will they all be worth $1000 and have a range of 30km or end up in scrap yards? Surely with the amount of them out there and all of them having roughly the same battery degredation after 10 years there must be going to be a big opportunity for some aftermarket battery system. Now that the majority of the original market leafs are either at the end or out of warranty I am hoping we will see something coming to market. So if that does actually happen, I wonder if it will be possible for a 24kWh leaf to be upgraded to 30/40kWh in 2-3 years. So instead of the upgrade costing $15-20k for a 2017/18/19 leaf does the upgrade become $5k for new battery and then you keep using the car. Everything else in the car should be good enough to last 300000km+, nothing really wears out. Quite different from an ICE where generally it is the wear and tear that makes them worth so little.

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#1884127 16-Oct-2017 09:32

One thing to think about regarding battery problems is that there are more leaf than any other EV so we will get reports of problems because the denominator is so large.

I have never search forums for any of my petrol cars over the last 25 years so I can't say that problems/issues are an ev thing.

Once my battery range becomes low, I think I'll look at using the battery as a power wall to store cheap night rate electricity or maybe look at solar.

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