NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3116216 15-Aug-2023 14:31

Technofreak:

There will be many edge cases. There will be plenty of producers trying to find a way to get the GST content off their product in order to gain more sales. There will be all sorts of antics employed to make a product fit in the no GST box.

National may not have ruled it out but I doubt very much they have any serious plan to implement it. Right now they probably see that there's a large portion of the population who think it's a good idea and they won't won't to alienate them.

A fresh or frozen pea is a fresh or frozen pea no matter how you cut it. If a producer has any antics that makes their food item, into fresh or frozen with no additives then its compliant. They can sell it at Briscoes if they wish, if its compliant

National ruled it in as it may be popular so hitch a ride. If its unpopular they will say it was a bad idea. That's my point, its not about NZ, not even a smidgen. For both

wellygary

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#3116253 15-Aug-2023 15:09

tdgeek:

A fresh or frozen pea is a fresh or frozen pea no matter how you cut it. If a producer has any antics that makes their food item, into fresh or frozen with no additives then its compliant.

So the days of Minted frozen peas look numbered, ....

The problem is that they have agreed to allow some "processing" without defining it,

Apparently a bag of salad (cut greens/carrots/etc) appears OK - as long as there are no condiments

Its unclear if "processing" includes taking peanuts or broad beans out from their shells

Then you get the existential question of , So its GST free to import off season tomatoes from Australia, but if you buy Canned tomatoes from the Hawkes Bay you pay GST.....

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#3116263 15-Aug-2023 15:23

wellygary:

So the days of Minted frozen peas look numbered, ....

The problem is that they have agreed to allow some "processing" without defining it,

Apparently a bag of salad (cut greens/carrots/etc) appears OK - as long as there are no condiments

Its unclear if "processing" includes taking peanuts or broad beans out from their shells

Then you get the existential question of , So its GST free to import off season tomatoes from Australia, but if you buy Canned tomatoes from the Hawkes Bay you pay GST.....

Those lines will be drawn, end of story. Already stated that there will be fringe cases, they will be yayed or nayed

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#3116268 15-Aug-2023 15:27

Orange juice with no additives, dunno, so make a call, yes or no, thats it

Orange juice definite no. Processed I think the guidelines are actually pretty clear. There's no need to create confusion.

ockel

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#3116271 15-Aug-2023 15:30

tdgeek:

Agree, apart from being many edge cases. Herbs for example are gst free if sold by a food supplier (supeys, dairy, etc) not from other suppliers like garden centres

Orange juice with no additives, dunno, so make a call, yes or no, thats it

But just remember, National is open to it too, so its effectively a bi partisan topic of sorts

I've really struggled to verify that National is open to the idea of having GST-free fruit and vege. Could you please provide a source/reference?

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#3116275 15-Aug-2023 15:37

ockel:

I've really struggled to verify that National is open to the idea of having GST-free fruit and vege. Could you please provide a source/reference?

I'll try to find it, was on Stuff or Newshub

EDIT

Cannot find anything so far. It was post leak, not "at" leak time, but not that long after. My searches mainly find recent articles or circa 27 July articles

I certainly recall him saying he or National were open to removing GST. Didnt think much about it as on the surface it sounded like an ok policy and not unusual for the other party to not be seen as opposing something that will/could be voter popular.

Make of it what you will, but I definitely read they/he were open to it. Open was the key word that was mentioned

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#3116279 15-Aug-2023 15:45

Rikkitic:

Lawyers and politicians always want to make simple things complicated. Just appoint a referee with dictatorial powers to make decisions on grey areas, no appeal, no discussion. The referee can be impeached if he is bribed but that is all. Hair splitters are always trying to make perfect the enemy of good. It doesn't have to be 100% consistent. It just has to be common sense reasonable in the majority of cases.

We have a 100% consistent approach to our GST now, no referees, no hot list of whats in and whats out, no differentiating between an orange and orange juice. Its simple to administer, has low compliance costs for business and Govt alike. But no, with all their cumulative real world business experience to guide their economic decisions, the geniuses in the beehive have decided that a complicated solution is the right one to try and fix a problem they created (or at the very least significantly influenced) in the first place.

Please create a system that isn't 100% consistent, we need to sell some more luxury cars to the accountants and lawyers who will be lining up to challenge inconsistencies and raking in exorbitant fees in the process......

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#3116282 15-Aug-2023 15:48

gzt:
Orange juice with no additives, dunno, so make a call, yes or no, thats it

Orange juice definite no. Processed I think the guidelines are actually pretty clear. There's no need to create confusion.

My supermarket has a machine that creates freshly squeezed orange juice from whole oranges on demand.

Likewise they have machine to create fresh pineapple chunks.

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#3116287 15-Aug-2023 16:00

Likewise that's a very clear case.

wellygary

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#3116292 15-Aug-2023 16:08

sir1963:

My supermarket has a machine that creates freshly squeezed orange juice from whole oranges on demand.

Likewise they have machine to create fresh pineapple chunks.

My thinking will be if they sell you the oranges before they are juiced there is no GST on them,

The cost to juice them is the same as now ( including GST) ,

So the result should be cheaper than it is now, as the input price was less...

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#3116308 15-Aug-2023 16:16

ockel:

I've really struggled to verify that National is open to the idea of having GST-free fruit and vege. Could you please provide a source/reference?

Added an EDIT above, but that will get lost

Cannot find anything so far. It was post leak, not "at" leak time, but not that long after. My searches mainly find recent articles or circa 27 July articles

I certainly recall him saying he or National were open to removing GST. Didn't think much about it as on the surface it sounded like an ok policy and not unusual for the other party to not be seen as opposing something that will/could be voter popular.

Make of it what you will, but I definitely read they/he were open to it. Open was the key word that was mentioned

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#3116404 15-Aug-2023 18:08

tdgeek:

ockel:

I've really struggled to verify that National is open to the idea of having GST-free fruit and vege. Could you please provide a source/reference?

Added an EDIT above, but that will get lost

Cannot find anything so far. It was post leak, not "at" leak time, but not that long after. My searches mainly find recent articles or circa 27 July articles

I certainly recall him saying he or National were open to removing GST. Didn't think much about it as on the surface it sounded like an ok policy and not unusual for the other party to not be seen as opposing something that will/could be voter popular.

Make of it what you will, but I definitely read they/he were open to it. Open was the key word that was mentioned

I was taking your word for it when you said National was open to the idea of removing GST from fresh fruit and veg. Hence my thoughts on that "openess".

I cannot find anything that suggests National is open to the idea at all. In fact in two places this article strongly suggests the opposite.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labour-leaks-national-reveals-labours-tax-policy-gst-off-fresh-fruit-and-vegetables-dubbed-boondoggle-by-grant-robertson/LDS32AKYPJFPJG5PNA55QYIOPI/

"Willis warned the tax would hand millions to some of the country’s largest and most profitable companies who would absorb the cut, and fatten their margins."

and

"Of all the parties in Parliament, only Te Pāti Māori backed the GST policy, but it wants to go further, taking GST off all food."

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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#3116407 15-Aug-2023 18:13

GST aside... paid parental leave for partners. Given the rampant promiscuity in this country, I do wonder if this will be open to all partners.

tdgeek

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#3116419 15-Aug-2023 19:41

Technofreak:

I was taking your word for it when you said National was open to the idea of removing GST from fresh fruit and veg. Hence my thoughts on that "openess".

I cannot find anything that suggests National is open to the idea at all. In fact in two places this article strongly suggests the opposite.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labour-leaks-national-reveals-labours-tax-policy-gst-off-fresh-fruit-and-vegetables-dubbed-boondoggle-by-grant-robertson/LDS32AKYPJFPJG5PNA55QYIOPI/

"Willis warned the tax would hand millions to some of the country’s largest and most profitable companies who would absorb the cut, and fatten their margins."

and

"Of all the parties in Parliament, only Te Pāti Māori backed the GST policy, but it wants to go further, taking GST off all food."

I get that. Ive read that in my searches to satisfy Ockel. What I read is what I read, it wasnt a "mistake" or a "misinterpretation". I read it. After the leak (maybe days) and well before the official announcement.

Yes, I agree, when I searched I cannot find it. It was after the leak, so no biggie to me at the time as I stated why. And well before the official announcement. As I alluded to, it meant little to me for the reasons I stated. Quite a good voter policy so we will go with it, to not be seen as negative. Now, not so much. Although globally its been implemented heavily.

In short I feel a bit miffed as if some feel what I posted was a lie, but what can I say? I DID read it, not surprised, thought little about it. But if anyone feels I was lying or making things up, just say so.

tdgeek

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#3116426 15-Aug-2023 19:51

SirHumphreyAppleby:

GST aside... paid parental leave for partners. Given the rampant promiscuity in this country, I do wonder if this will be open to all partners.

All partners? Assume you mean LGBT etc partners? I would assume so. But my mindset is that we have a lot of issues, and IMHO many many are global, but many are NZ historical. But this election we seem more consumed by fruit and veggies, roads that will not reduce congestion, but they will get rid of more oil...

Up till the 2016 election I was 50/50 National and Labour voter, plus the odd soiree to Greens, or no one. This election there is nobody to vote for. Literally. Greens yes, if you can cancel x amount of their policies. They do have some very good policies. Yes, elections gather lollies, but IMHO, this election is like no other. More issues than ever before, yet more lollies than ever before. Yet the today and future funding for health, education, infratstructure, inflation, housing, is nowhere to be seen.

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