Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#1897530 8-Nov-2017 13:10

gulfa:

I would have thought that some of you would have commented on the John Minto article by now or has he hit the nail on the head especially with his quotes from the IRD

or has it been more fun to try and pick more holes in the new Government before they have had a chance to settle in. Talk about a cat more interesting?????

Like any political thread it gets testy. Id rather have passionate talk that ends up testy, than not. That we can lighten up and banter shows that its about the topic not the person. I get badgered in the Trump thread for saying he is just a harmless idiot, by people that I engage in and enjoy on other topics

Topic not the person.

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#1897533 8-Nov-2017 13:18

gulfa:

Talk about a cat more interesting?????

Maybe talk to the press in NZ about it, if it bothers you so much, since every article (almost) about JA has included something about her cat.

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#1897534 8-Nov-2017 13:19

tdgeek:

The Opportunities Party leader asked Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern if her cat was "out and about wandering?" when the accident happened.

"If so does this reflect the value the PM puts on NZ wildlife?" Morgan said.

OMG - I 100% thought that this was satire on your part, but I just saw the news article now...

What a Grade-A douchebag that guy is!

I haven't got anything much nice to say about Adern's professional capabilities, but I have the utmost sympathy for her in this case.

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#1897548 8-Nov-2017 13:28

6FIEND:

tdgeek:

The Opportunities Party leader asked Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern if her cat was "out and about wandering?" when the accident happened.

"If so does this reflect the value the PM puts on NZ wildlife?" Morgan said.

OMG - I 100% thought that this was satire on your part, but I just saw the news article now...

What a Grade-A douchebag that guy is!

I haven't got anything much nice to say about Adern's professional capabilities, but I have the utmost sympathy for her in this case.

Yeah, its just a cat but we lost an old one that was gutting and when we moved the other one got run over, also gutting. To have this play out by him is pretty poor. And no doubt some Opposition have talked to her, as that has happened to them, thats what normal humans do

gulfa

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#1897552 8-Nov-2017 13:35

networkn:

gulfa:

Talk about a cat more interesting?????

Maybe talk to the press in NZ about it, if it bothers you so much, since every article (almost) about JA has included something about her cat.

I assume you have read the John Minto( I'm not a fan of his but it makes you wonder) article or was the headline off putting "having a go at capitalism" it might be to close to home for some especially about the 150 NZ quoted by IRD

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#1897554 8-Nov-2017 13:44

gulfa:

I assume you have read the John Minto( I'm not a fan of his but it makes you wonder) article or was the headline off putting "having a go at capitalism" it might be to close to home for some especially about the 150 NZ quoted by IRD

I did read the article and was responding. Sorry it wasn't to your timeframe.

I am a little perturbed at your continued little passive aggressive barbs at me. You know nothing about me, so suggesting it was too close to home is just an assumption that I can assure you, made an ass out of you.

Not all National supporters are rich aholes who take joy in watching the poor suffer, just as not all Labour supporters are unemployed bitter lazy layabouts who want a free handout from the Government.

Can you take a few moments and try to chill out please?

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#1897563 8-Nov-2017 14:04

gulfa:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/98632623/john-minto-agrees-with-winston-peters-capitalism-delivers-for-the-wealthy

An interesting read be interested to see comments

That is an exceptionally one-sided view of the situation I must say. Having said that, as a National supporter, I support ensuring that our richest people pay their fair share of tax and I support changes to the law that mean that international companies pay tax here as well. I do suspect though, if made to do this, there would be implications to availability and price of those of those products and services in NZ which would hurt the consumer somewhat.

Everything is a balance and perhaps right now that balance isn't quite right.

Having said that, I don't think National supports unbridled capitalism in the same vein as you see in other countries, and their policies do reflect that somewhat.

I have said this before, that Poverty is a not a hard set definition. It's set as a percentage, so there will always be those considered in Poverty regardless of the wealth, because the bottom 10% for example will always be so much worse off than the top 10%.

I am not sure about the claim that 1 in 4 kids is in poverty either. I have heard this bandied around before, I don't think NZ has much if any "poverty" the way it would be defined globally.

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#1897567 8-Nov-2017 14:12

networkn:

gulfa:

I assume you have read the John Minto( I'm not a fan of his but it makes you wonder) article or was the headline off putting "having a go at capitalism" it might be to close to home for some especially about the 150 NZ quoted by IRD

I did read the article and was responding. Sorry it wasn't to your timeframe.

I am a little perturbed at your continued little passive aggressive barbs at me. You know nothing about me, so suggesting it was too close to home is just an assumption that I can assure you, made an ass out of you.

Not all National supporters are rich aholes who take joy in watching the poor suffer, just as not all Labour supporters are unemployed bitter lazy layabouts who want a free handout from the Government.

Can you take a few moments and try to chill out please?

I am sorry you take this personally but the article needs to be read by many. I have never made statements about National or Labour party members. Some of my best friends are from both groups and we debate and have disagreement over many issues but we treat and accept opinions of others. I am very concerned with the gap between the Those who have and those who don't have. We need to address this problem and I believe that the change in government could address this issue. I may be wrong but unless it is addressed our futures could be like we see overseas countries. The killing of innocent people seems almost a common occurrence in some of the most advanced countries where there is this huge gap. I believe that changing our government after a period of time will do nothing but good for the country as a whole. If this present government spends the next two or three electoral cycles then I believe a change would be good for the country. There are many problems in our country that need to be addressed and I hope that this Government will at least improve or address them. For your information I have always been a swinging voter and you would probably laugh when I tell you I once voted Social Credit.

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#1897568 8-Nov-2017 14:13

6FIEND:

OMG - I 100% thought that this was satire on your part, but I just saw the news article now...

What a Grade-A douchebag that guy is!

I haven't got anything much nice to say about Adern's professional capabilities, but I have the utmost sympathy for her in this case.

I think the timing of his comments were poor.

I am not a supporter of his anti cat rhetoric per se, but I think there is valid research behind his claims that cats do kill significant numbers of wildlife.

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#1897573 8-Nov-2017 14:28

gulfa:

I am sorry you take this personally but the article needs to be read by many. I have never made statements about National or Labour party members. Some of my best friends are from both groups and we debate and have disagreement over many issues but we treat and accept opinions of others. I am very concerned with the gap between the Those who have and those who don't have. We need to address this problem and I believe that the change in government could address this issue. I may be wrong but unless it is addressed our futures could be like we see overseas countries. The killing of innocent people seems almost a common occurrence in some of the most advanced countries where there is this huge gap. I believe that changing our government after a period of time will do nothing but good for the country as a whole. If this present government spends the next two or three electoral cycles then I believe a change would be good for the country. There are many problems in our country that need to be addressed and I hope that this Government will at least improve or address them. For your information I have always been a swinging voter and you would probably laugh when I tell you I once voted Social Credit.

A professor I know once said that when it comes to an apology everything said before the "but" is BS, but in the interest of being conciliatory, I accept your apology.

I don't doubt that left to their own devices, Labour may be able to solve some of the issues with the country, my issue is that I believe it will create other, much more long-term issues, which will return us back to the original problems in the longer term.

Things need to be balanced and Labour in my view, doesn't have a very balanced position on many things, including employment relations, business growth and other things which ultimately fund a more socialist agenda. I think that stems from the fact only one of their MP's has held a private sector job or owned a business. It's like people who don't have kids, giving advice to parents, until you've done it, you can't really understand what it's like.

They have made some wild and IMO stupid claims in their policies (100,000 houses in 10 Years for example), and others I think are unlikely like 100M trees, just two off the top of my head. I don't believe that the Government will produce baselines which accurately state that x number of kids are in poverty now and then use the same baselines to show they delivered on reducing those numbers by the amount promised in their first term (and be willing to be held to account in the next election as a result). They have bitten off more than they can chew from my view and I suspect that may be their undoing which ultimately will make things worse for NZ in the longer term.

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#1897619 8-Nov-2017 14:42

networkn:

I don't doubt that left to their own devices, Labour may be able to solve some of the issues with the country, my issue is that I believe it will create other, much more long-term issues, which will return us back to the original problems in the longer term.

Things need to be balanced and Labour in my view, doesn't have a very balanced position on many things, including employment relations, business growth and other things which ultimately fund a more socialist agenda. I think that stems from the fact only one of their MP's has held a private sector job or owned a business. It's like people who don't have kids, giving advice to parents, until you've done it, you can't really understand what it's like.

They have made some wild and IMO stupid claims in their policies (100,000 houses in 10 Years for example), and others I think are unlikely like 100M trees, just two off the top of my head. I don't believe that the Government will produce baselines which accurately state that x number of kids are in poverty now and then use the same baselines to show they delivered on reducing those numbers by the amount promised in their first term (and be willing to be held to account in the next election as a result). They have bitten off more than they can chew from my view and I suspect that may be their undoing which ultimately will make things worse for NZ in the longer term.

I don't necessarily agree with all this but at least it is the kind of sensible argument I can respect. It is the kind of argument you often make, but then you go on to say something silly or petty that kind of wipes out all the good. I am very wary of people who make outrageous or offensive statements and then say they are just kidding. Plastering a smiley face on something unpleasant doesn't make it palatable. Try sticking to the arguments you are good at.

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#1897620 8-Nov-2017 14:47

gulfa:
I would have thought that some of you would have commented on the John Minto article by now or has he hit the nail on the head especially with his quotes from the IRD

Intended to but have not clicked yet. Quoting a relevent part of the article for discussion typically gets a better response.

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#1897624 8-Nov-2017 14:59

Rikkitic:

I don't necessarily agree with all this but at least it is the kind of sensible argument I can respect. It is the kind of argument you often make, but then you go on to say something silly or petty that kind of wipes out all the good. I am very wary of people who make outrageous or offensive statements and then say they are just kidding. Plastering a smiley face on something unpleasant doesn't make it palatable. Try sticking to the arguments you are good at.

Maybe rather than getting all hot and bothered and offended everytime I make a joke *you* don't find funny, take it at face value. Doesn't do anyone harm to be able to laugh at themselves from time to time.

Trust me, if I *want* to offend someone, it will be unequivocally obvious. Having said that, I am not prone to wanting to offend people. Neither do I suffer fools gladly.

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#1897629 8-Nov-2017 15:22

...and back to the matter at hand:

The "$5 pie" analogy just got an update.

https://medium.com/@_hehir_/this-pie-analogy-is-the-most-kiwi-way-of-explaining-electing-the-speaker-ever-2e758e103033

Hopefully that will lighten the mood for some :-)

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#1897638 8-Nov-2017 16:02

gulfa:

I would have thought that some of you would have commented on the John Minto article by now or has he hit the nail on the head especially with his quotes from the IRD

or has it been more fun to try and pick more holes in the new Government before they have had a chance to settle in. Talk about a cat more interesting?????

If you want a comment on that article, then here goes... Absolute drivel. I guess it's good to have a few socialists around to stop you taking the benefits of capitalism for granted lol...

Of course, I get the impresssion the vast majority of people out there don't actually understand what "capitalism" actually is (mr Minto included). But nowhere in the definition of capitalism is there a prerequisite that "the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer" - if incidentally that happens then the governent steps in to ensure there is social welfare (an element of modified socialism), a progressive tax system (another element of modified socialism), free health care to help improve the standard of living for all society (an element of modified socialism).

He uses the example of drug companies. He might have a point, but there's two sides to every story. If the scientists who developed it grew up in a purely socialist environment then there would be no motivation put in the hard work to get a medical degree, therefore they'd just go to school and get a job in a factory etc. because the drug companies are not allowed to make a profit there would be no laboratories because they would have no money to build them. we would be living in medieval condition with no way to combat any diseases. Possibly penecillin would be developed, but probably nothing further than that... i could go on and on, but basically, pure socialism would be an utter disaster (he can obviously see that because he doesn't want a USSR situation).

So his rant is quite amusing from the fact that he is advocating for a form of modified socialism without realising that's what New Zealand already has. But at the end of the day, capitalism is the only economic model that can deliver change for those people in need. Winston hit the nail on the head when he said something like ‘for many people capitalism hasn’t delivered what people need…”

But "unfettered capitalism" what a joke....

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