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bazzer
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  #393019 18-Oct-2010 08:19
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Regs:
Linuxluver:
The only issue I have with Kiwisaver is it goes to fund managers who then put it in the share market....and I;ve learned several times over past 30 years that the share market is mug's game unless you pick the winners precisely....and fund managers do a lousy job of that. My AMP super fund is still worth less than it was 3 years ago. 


for the risk-adverse, you can opt for a "Cash" investment fund instead. Those are not invested in the sharemarket and basically deliver the same as a bank deposit (less the management fees, of course).  My parents were both close to 65 when they started kiwisaver so i ensured that they enrolled in case funds.

for the 'younger' people - people who are expecting to be around for another 30+ years before they draw on kiwisaver - the managed funds with shares are not so bad as the sharemarket still tends to rise in the long term.  if you go for the higher risk funds - the growth funds - you might find some pretty decent gains after several years. 

as has been illustrated over the recession and financial crises though, shares can have big downward movements.  some of the funds that started as $1 per unit dropped well under that.  if you were in  it for the short term, well - sucks to be you!  for those of use in it for longer, sure some unitslost value for a couple of years.  while they were low, we were also buying units for less than $1.  now those units we bought for less than $1 are worth over $1... which represents some pretty decent gains.  Also, while the units were less than $1 we bought more of them as we were still investing the same amount.

my fund - fisher funds, which is a growth fund - has had 15% growth over the last two years and has a 3% growth since the fund launched.  during the worst of it in nov/dec 08, each $1 unit was worth less than 70c i think.  i'm not sure what the current balance is, but i'm usually pretty happy when i see it given that i would have nothing saved otherwise..

The benefits of dollar cost averaging!

Also, the employer/government contributions give us a significant buffer against losses.



gumgem
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  #393043 18-Oct-2010 09:20
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People should read the kiwisaver info carefully but no one ever does. There's alot of restrictions if you want to take your money out to buy a house as well which many people don't know about.

dolsen
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  #393052 18-Oct-2010 09:46
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gumgem: People should read the kiwisaver info carefully but no one ever does. There's alot of restrictions if you want to take your money out to buy a house as well which many people don't know about.


I signed up, expecting to be able to use the mortgage diversion. 4 Days before I would have been eligible to do this, this option was closed to new people. It's annoying when you read the fine print, then, the govt changes the terms and conditions preventing you from doing what you want.

A little bit annoyed about it, but, my employer is putting in 4%, so, it's still worth it for me.



bazzer
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  #393070 18-Oct-2010 10:21
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dolsen:
gumgem: People should read the kiwisaver info carefully but no one ever does. There's alot of restrictions if you want to take your money out to buy a house as well which many people don't know about.


I signed up, expecting to be able to use the mortgage diversion. 4 Days before I would have been eligible to do this, this option was closed to new people. It's annoying when you read the fine print, then, the govt changes the terms and conditions preventing you from doing what you want.

A little bit annoyed about it, but, my employer is putting in 4%, so, it's still worth it for me.

I take it gumgem is referring to the deposit subsidy as the only restriction on getting the money out (yours and the employer contributions NOT the government contributions) is having been in Kiwisaver for more than three years and buying your first home.

pebbles
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  #393092 18-Oct-2010 10:59
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bazzer:
dolsen:
gumgem: People should read the kiwisaver info carefully but no one ever does. There's alot of restrictions if you want to take your money out to buy a house as well which many people don't know about.


I signed up, expecting to be able to use the mortgage diversion. 4 Days before I would have been eligible to do this, this option was closed to new people. It's annoying when you read the fine print, then, the govt changes the terms and conditions preventing you from doing what you want.

A little bit annoyed about it, but, my employer is putting in 4%, so, it's still worth it for me.

I take it gumgem is referring to the deposit subsidy as the only restriction on getting the money out (yours and the employer contributions NOT the government contributions) is having been in Kiwisaver for more than three years and buying your first home.


....and there is a limit to the amount you can earn before you become ineligable - this put me off as I have no idea what my partner and I will be on in 3-5 years & I think the limit is $100,000, so $50k each.

In IT this is probably quite an achievable salary.







bazzer
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  #393105 18-Oct-2010 11:31
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pebbles:
bazzer:
dolsen:
gumgem: People should read the kiwisaver info carefully but no one ever does. There's alot of restrictions if you want to take your money out to buy a house as well which many people don't know about.


I signed up, expecting to be able to use the mortgage diversion. 4 Days before I would have been eligible to do this, this option was closed to new people. It's annoying when you read the fine print, then, the govt changes the terms and conditions preventing you from doing what you want.

A little bit annoyed about it, but, my employer is putting in 4%, so, it's still worth it for me.

I take it gumgem is referring to the deposit subsidy as the only restriction on getting the money out (yours and the employer contributions NOT the government contributions) is having been in Kiwisaver for more than three years and buying your first home.


....and there is a limit to the amount you can earn before you become ineligable - this put me off as I have no idea what my partner and I will be on in 3-5 years & I think the limit is $100,000, so $50k each.

In IT this is probably quite an achievable salary.

That is specific to the deposit subsidy actually.  Similarly you must buy a house under $400/$300k depending on where you live.  These restrictions do not apply to withdrawal of your own funds for buying a house.

The income limit you mentioned is $100k for 1/2 people and $140k for 3+.  So if you bought a house in 3 years time and either one of you still earned below $100k you can just buy the house in that person's name and receive the subsidy and withdrawal.  Transfer the house to both names at a later date if required.

Regs
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  #393261 18-Oct-2010 17:39
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dolsen:
gumgem: People should read the kiwisaver info carefully but no one ever does. There's alot of restrictions if you want to take your money out to buy a house as well which many people don't know about.


I signed up, expecting to be able to use the mortgage diversion. 4 Days before I would have been eligible to do this, this option was closed to new people. It's annoying when you read the fine print, then, the govt changes the terms and conditions preventing you from doing what you want.

A little bit annoyed about it, but, my employer is putting in 4%, so, it's still worth it for me.


now that they dropped the minimum contributions to 2% the mortgage diversion scheme is mostly pointless... unless, i guess, you are getting 4% from your employer.  for the rest of us the easiest answer is to drop the contribution to 2% instead of getting 2% diverted after the fact.




 
 
 

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robbyp
1199 posts

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  #393828 20-Oct-2010 00:14

bazzer:
pebbles:
bazzer:
dolsen:
gumgem: People should read the kiwisaver info carefully but no one ever does. There's alot of restrictions if you want to take your money out to buy a house as well which many people don't know about.


I signed up, expecting to be able to use the mortgage diversion. 4 Days before I would have been eligible to do this, this option was closed to new people. It's annoying when you read the fine print, then, the govt changes the terms and conditions preventing you from doing what you want.

A little bit annoyed about it, but, my employer is putting in 4%, so, it's still worth it for me.

I take it gumgem is referring to the deposit subsidy as the only restriction on getting the money out (yours and the employer contributions NOT the government contributions) is having been in Kiwisaver for more than three years and buying your first home.


....and there is a limit to the amount you can earn before you become ineligable - this put me off as I have no idea what my partner and I will be on in 3-5 years & I think the limit is $100,000, so $50k each.

In IT this is probably quite an achievable salary.

That is specific to the deposit subsidy actually.  Similarly you must buy a house under $400/$300k depending on where you live.  These restrictions do not apply to withdrawal of your own funds for buying a house.


The income limit you mentioned is $100k for 1/2 people and $140k for 3+.  So if you bought a house in 3 years time and either one of you still earned below $100k you can just buy the house in that person's name and receive the subsidy and withdrawal.  Transfer the house to both names at a later date if required.


 

I can't understand why they put so many obstacles in place for the first home buyer scheme. It is already hardly being taken up by anyone as it is. Many people buy their house through a trust anyway, to protect their assets.

bazzer
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  #393859 20-Oct-2010 08:58
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robbyp: I can't understand why they put so many obstacles in place for the first home buyer scheme. It is already hardly being taken up by anyone as it is. Many people buy their house through a trust anyway, to protect their assets.

I wouldn't say they are obstacles.  The subsidy is to help people that otherwise might not be able to buy a home on their own.  The "obstacles" you refer to are to stop it being abused by others.  I don't say I agree with it, no one helped me buy my first house, but that's the way it goes.

If you earn over $100k and/or want to buy an expensive house you don't really need (or can expect) the government's help in doing that.  You can still use your own (and employer's) contributions and all the interest to buy the house with no questions asked.

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