Why does the media industry hate its customers?

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SamF

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#171319 13-Apr-2015 19:23

[Warning: May contain up to 55% ranting]

I am a movie fan, with a home cinema setup and a fairly decent collection of fully legal, retail purchased DVD and Blu-Ray movies. I like supporting an industry which brings me such great entertainment on a regular basis. However, the media industry appears to have nothing but hate and contempt for me as one of its customers.

This afternoon I decided that I'd like to watch one of my movies on my PC as my wife was watching TV and wasn't interested in this particular movie. So I put the Blu-Ray disk into my PC, which is equipped with a Blu-Ray reader, right clicked on the disk when it came up and clicked 'Play'.

Maybe I was being overly optimistic with my expectation that it should 'just work', but on my fully updated, fully HDCP compliant Windows 7 machine, I thought that there would at least be a fairly good chance. Alas, no.

Being a 20 year veteran in the IT industry, I was not perturbed, but after 2 hours of trying a number of different players, codecs, codec packs and methods, I am still no further in my quest to watch the movie. The problem appears to be the encrypted nature of the Blu-Ray media information.

Then it dawned on me; I could have downloaded the movie illegally from the Internet and spent the wasted 2 hours of my life doing something slightly more enjoyable, and I can guarantee that I would have far less trouble getting my illegally obtained movie playing than I have had with my legal Blu-Ray disk!

The media industry is in a constant state of lamentation about how illegal downloading is ruining its business. As a technically competent, legal customer of the media industry I can tell you that the real issue is that the media industry simply not competitive with it's biggest rival; not on price, not on ease of access and not on supplying what its customers actually want.

Listen to your customers media industry; evolve or face extinction! Encryption doesn't work, give it up, it's only hurting your legitimate customers.

You have been warned!

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#1282464 13-Apr-2015 19:42

Not sure how the media industry could possibly ever compete on price with piracy, where the price is zero.

But yes, I agree with most of the rest of what you say.

SamF

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#1282467 13-Apr-2015 19:50

NonprayingMantis: Not sure how the media industry could possibly ever compete on price with piracy, where the price is zero.

But yes, I agree with most of the rest of what you say.

They don't have to have a price of zero, but that's their competition so something closer to this would be better.

I personally think that if a new movie were $10 or even $20, they would actually make more money because people would be more likely to buy.

Gilco2

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#1282475 13-Apr-2015 20:01

I cheat. I watch Blu Ray with XBMC. No problem at all and no extra codecs than comes with Windows 8.1 and built in XBMC. The part I cheat with is I use Anydvd hd with lifetime license. It works perfect. I like that there is no mucking around with codecs and different programs. I can do all through XBMC

HTPC Intel Pentium G3258 cpu, Gigabyte H97n-wifi motherboard, , 8GB DDR3 ram, onboard graphics. Hauppuage HVR 5500 tuner, Silverstone LC16M case, Windows 10 pro 64 bit using Nextpvr and Kodi

mm1352000

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#1282495 13-Apr-2015 20:38

Yep, I too despise DRM and wish it didn't exist. Unfortunately some people in this world don't want to pay for stuff and others are greedy. Therefore DRM exists, and therefore: AnyDVD HD for the win.

SamF

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#1282496 13-Apr-2015 20:42

mm1352000: Yep, I too despise DRM and wish it didn't exist. Unfortunately some people in this world don't want to pay for stuff and others are greedy. Therefore DRM exists, and therefore: AnyDVD HD for the win.

Well, as we all know DRM doesn't stop people pirating, and, as evidenced, disadvantages legitimate customers, so it is therefore a liability to all parties.

AnyDVD HD is a brilliant tool, no doubt, but A) I object to having to purchase 3rd party tools just to consume media I legally purchased, and B) If the media companies had their way, AnyDVD would be off the market!

networkn

Networkn
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#1282497 13-Apr-2015 20:42

Buy Cyberlink PowerDVD Blu-Ray player, the issue will be resolved.

It's expensive, but it works, right away out of the box.

Stu

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#1282545 13-Apr-2015 22:08

How about VLC? Not tried it personally, and I may be wrong, but apparently it can be tweaked for Blu Ray?

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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charsleysa

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#1282554 13-Apr-2015 22:36

I hate HDCP, it's a pain in the backside!

Sometimes if I can't get it to work I just say screw it then torrent the film.

And before people complain that I'm a pirate, no I'm not. I've already purchased a licence to own the film, how I obtain it from there on out is up to me.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

JimmyH

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#1282555 13-Apr-2015 22:40

mm1352000: Yep, I too despise DRM and wish it didn't exist. Unfortunately some people in this world don't want to pay for stuff and others are greedy. Therefore DRM exists, and therefore: AnyDVD HD for the win.

I might buy that if it actually solved, or even remotely addressed, the piracy problem. It doesn't, in fact I suspect it makes it worse - as it makes the pirated product actually better than the purchased one. Is there any DRM deployed to a consumer level that isn't easily bypassed at trivial expense by someone who cares enough to do so? And the thing about digital distribution is that it only requires one person to seed.

I'm in a similar position to the OP, and frequently wonder if I'm being a total mug for purchasing media and watching it through paid subscription services, rather than just giving up and torrenting an unencumbered HD product like so many now seem to do.

reven

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#1282602 14-Apr-2015 06:46

SamF:
mm1352000: Yep, I too despise DRM and wish it didn't exist. Unfortunately some people in this world don't want to pay for stuff and others are greedy. Therefore DRM exists, and therefore: AnyDVD HD for the win.

Well, as we all know DRM doesn't stop people pirating, and, as evidenced, disadvantages legitimate customers, so it is therefore a liability to all parties.

AnyDVD HD is a brilliant tool, no doubt, but A) I object to having to purchase 3rd party tools just to consume media I legally purchased, and B) If the media companies had their way, AnyDVD would be off the market!

why? you have to buy a 3rd party bluray player to watch your bluray. why do you object to buying software that lets you do the same on a pc?

mm1352000

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#1283370 15-Apr-2015 02:21

SamF:
mm1352000: Yep, I too despise DRM and wish it didn't exist. Unfortunately some people in this world don't want to pay for stuff and others are greedy. Therefore DRM exists, and therefore: AnyDVD HD for the win.

Well, as we all know DRM doesn't stop people pirating, and, as evidenced, disadvantages legitimate customers, so it is therefore a liability to all parties.

I was not attempting to present a justification for DRM's continued existence. Rather, I simply referenced two of the reasons for its invention. Nevertheless, I'll bite...

I agree that the advent of DRM hasn't stopped all piracy. That's patently obvious.

In my opinion the biggest issue with DRM as a strategy is that it only takes one weak link in one distribution chain to compromise the security of content. While many individual DRM schemes have proved effective in various contexts, overall there are still many insecure chinks which enable pirates to acquire unprotected content. If DRM coverage were more consistent then I think pirates would have a more difficult task getting quality source material.

Perhaps a more interesting question is whether DRM has prevented any piracy. I think it is safe to say it has, but it's difficult to quantify exactly how much. We also have to weigh that against the counter-point that overly restrictive DRM may contribute to peoples' decision to pirate (note: this contribution is hard to quantify too!). On balance I'm satisfied that DRM is [still] a practical and cost-effective measure for combatting piracy, especially for consumers with average technical skills. After all, content providers and distributors continue to utilise it on a grand scale. Surely they wouldn't do that if the costs outweighed the benefits.

I don't agree with your assertion that DRM is "a liability to all parties" because it disadvantages legitimate customers.

From the perspective of a content producer and/or distributor: DRM is a cost-effective tool for protecting and maximising return on investment. I can't imagine they'd see it as a liability.

There's also the perspective of the companies and engineers that are paid to invent and/or implement DRM schemes. I fail to see how DRM is a liability to them when it earns them money.

As for the disadvantage to legitimate customers...
I most often run into DRM restrictions when I'm trying to backup DVDs or play protected content in the open source software players I prefer to use. From the perspective of the DRM, my actions are indistinguishable from the actions of somebody who is preparing to pirate the content. Therefore I understand and accept the intrusion of the DRM as an unavoidable disadvantage.

SamF: AnyDVD HD is a brilliant tool, no doubt, but A) I object to having to purchase 3rd party tools just to consume media I legally purchased...

Same response as reven.

SamF: ...and B) If the media companies had their way, AnyDVD would be off the market!

I don't understand your point.

HiroProtagonist

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#1285463 16-Apr-2015 11:12

mm1352000:
I don't agree with your assertion that DRM is "a liability to all parties" because it disadvantages legitimate customers.

From the perspective of a content producer and/or distributor: DRM is a cost-effective tool for protecting and maximising return on investment. I can't imagine they'd see it as a liability.

There's also the perspective of the companies and engineers that are paid to invent and/or implement DRM schemes. I fail to see how DRM is a liability to them when it earns them money.

As for the disadvantage to legitimate customers...
I most often run into DRM restrictions when I'm trying to backup DVDs or play protected content in the open source software players I prefer to use. From the perspective of the DRM, my actions are indistinguishable from the actions of somebody who is preparing to pirate the content. Therefore I understand and accept the intrusion of the DRM as an unavoidable disadvantage.

From the perspective of content producers, DRM is a cost - you say "cost-effective", but it is demonstrably not effective. You "can't imagine they'd see it as a liability" - the point is, that if it frustrates customers who have paid for your product to the point that they resort to a pirated copy, chances are they'll take the easy path rather than paying you for something they can't get to work next time - thus your DRM has resulted in a lost sale. This might not enter the perception of content producers, but is a liability nevertheless.

The perspective of the companies and engineers who produce DRM is naturally a different one to content producers and customers. DRM companies are on a gravy train, but this is funded by you - the customer, and is a liability to content producers in that it further reduces the competitiveness of their products by pushing up prices.

The disadvantage to legitimate customers is obvious as soon as you want to view content you've already purchased on another device - the content producers are absolutely fine with you having to buy another copy to do this - but the customer is just being ripped off.

mm1352000

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#1285620 16-Apr-2015 14:11

HiroProtagonist: From the perspective of content producers, DRM is a cost...

Well, yes it is a "cost" in the sense that they have to pay for it. However I argue that doesn't make it a liability as was asserted earlier. It is like anything we buy: we pay money (or equivalent) in exchange for [perceived] utility.

HiroProtagonist: ...you say "cost-effective", but it is demonstrably not effective.

That depends how you define "effective". I already agreed DRM hasn't 100% stopped piracy... but is that it's purpose? Does that mean DRM hasn't stopped any piracy?

HiroProtagonist: You "can't imagine they'd see it as a liability" - the point is, that if it frustrates customers who have paid for your product to the point that they resort to a pirated copy, chances are they'll take the easy path rather than paying you for something they can't get to work next time - thus your DRM has resulted in a lost sale. This might not enter the perception of content producers...

Honestly, what proportion of pirates do you think had a bad experience with DRM that caused them to start pirating? I'm inclined to think it would be a very small proportion, and that piracy flourishes simply because people like to get stuff for free.

Anyhow, I'm sure content producers are aware of that perspective.

I don't think a reasonable content producer would intentionally use DRM to frustrate their customers to that degree. There's no advantage in doing that. Rather, they're simply taking what they think are prudent measures to protect their investment.

The use of DRM involves a trade-off between two competing interests:
1. Content protection.
2. Customer experience.

It isn't possible to fully protect content and give customers the freedom to do whatever they want. Knowing this, a reasonable content provider would "configure" DRM to enforce baseline constraints while attempting to minimise impact on customer experience. Consumers can then choose to buy... or not. If they buy, they implicitly accept the limitations. If they don't accept the limitations then they shouldn't buy the product.

HiroProtagonist: ...but is a liability nevertheless.

Content producers are business people. Good business people do some kind of cost-benefit analysis before making a decision. Most decisions have both costs and benefits. Costs (liabilities) can be outweighed by benefits. Content producers wouldn't use DRM is it were a net liability.

HiroProtagonist: The perspective of the companies and engineers who produce DRM is naturally a different one to content producers and customers. DRM companies are on a gravy train...

Yes, and that was exactly my point. DRM is not a liability to all parties, as was asserted by the OP.

HiroProtagonist: ...but this is funded by you - the customer, and is a liability to content producers in that it further reduces the competitiveness of their products by pushing up prices.

How large do you think the contribution of DRM is to the shelf price? I suspect in most cases it is so small as to be insignificant.

HiroProtagonist: The disadvantage to legitimate customers is obvious as soon as you want to view content you've already purchased on another device - the content producers are absolutely fine with you having to buy another copy to do this - but the customer is just being ripped off.

I don't agree with this.

In case you weren't aware, these days Blu-ray purchases often come with a digital copy or UltraViolet code. Both of these initiatives are intended to enable consumers to play the content on other devices without having to buy additional copies. Therefore, to say that "content producers are absolutely fine..." is to ignore the current state of the market.

SamF

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#1285710 16-Apr-2015 16:22

mm1352000:
From the perspective of a content producer and/or distributor: DRM is a cost-effective tool for protecting and maximising return on investment. I can't imagine they'd see it as a liability.

Well, considering the AACS content protection scheme cost millions to develop and implement, but yet was defeated within a few short months of release, I wouldn't call that cost effective return on investment! Perhaps it stops casual users from copying it, but really, anyone with minimal knowledge can download a movie.

reven:
SamF: AnyDVD HD is a brilliant tool, no doubt, but A) I object to having to purchase 3rd party tools just to consume media I legally purchased, and B) If the media companies had their way, AnyDVD would be off the market!

why? you have to buy a 3rd party bluray player to watch your bluray. why do you object to buying software that lets you do the same on a pc?

I can do many other things with my blu-ray player and PC, Why do I have to pay for third party software to play the movie I bought!?

mm1352000:
SamF: ...and B) If the media companies had their way, AnyDVD would be off the market!

I don't understand your point.

Media companies do not like others bypassing their expensive copy protection and have been successful in making this illegal in the USA.

SamF

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#1285715 16-Apr-2015 16:28

mm1352000:
In case you weren't aware, these days Blu-ray purchases often come with a digital copy or UltraViolet code. Both of these initiatives are intended to enable consumers to play the content on other devices without having to buy additional copies. Therefore, to say that "content producers are absolutely fine..." is to ignore the current state of the market.

Ha! Have you ever tried to use an UltraViolet code!?
1) You have to install proprietary, invasive, buggy software on your device
2) You do not have unrestricted access to play the media on any device
3) The media quality is rubbish
4) The codes EXPIRE! I bought a relatively new retail movie once which had an UltraViolet code which had expired only a few months after the movie was released!

In reality UltraViolet is no better, and in some ways worse, than standard Blu-Ray content protection. If this is the movie industry's answer to pirating, they need to go back to the drawing board!

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