White Island eruption

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Smpl Mnmlst
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#2372873 12-Dec-2019 07:24

eracode:

I hope that the Ovation passengers who went on what may have been an excursion promoted via Royal Caribbean were given adequate warning of the nature of the trip. I wonder if the passengers were required to give no-fault waivers etc to RC and/or the tour operator. Don’t know what flag Ovation sails under and what law applies, but litigation for this sort of thing in the US could be astronomical.

Hmmm .... here we go. Possibility of litigation in the US raises its head:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12293004

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frankv

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#2372874 12-Dec-2019 07:26

frednz:

"...we could have an open casket..."

More than likely he's *very* badly burnt.

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#2372875 12-Dec-2019 07:29

Batman:

Technofreak:

frednz:

The question is, should the Police grant his wish and urgently let him make a personal recovery?

Most definitely, Yes. At the same time let the helicopter pilots who have volunteered to go there and recover the rest of the bodies go in.

It's starting to look like Pike River revisited.

how can they control who can go on a private island?

There is a Volcanic Hazard Zone around all the active volcanoes. This increases in size depending on the alert level.

frednz

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#2372878 12-Dec-2019 07:37

Fred99:

Technofreak:

frednz:

The question is, should the Police grant his wish and urgently let him make a personal recovery?

Most definitely, Yes. At the same time let the helicopter pilots who have volunteered to go there and recover the rest of the bodies go in.

It's starting to look like Pike River revisited.

Nope.

The activity (drums, RSAM SSAM monitoring) on White Island has really ramped up, the island is covered in ash that'll quite possibly kill chopper motors if they try to land, they've been given the message by experts not to go, so they should damned well heed it.

If some cowboy decide to do it anyway, CAA should take their license. I'm sorry about his dead brother.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/12/white-island-eruption-mark-inman-denied-permission-to-retrieve-brother-s-body.html

From the above:

"I am writing to ask for a pardon for my actions of a personal recovery," Inman wrote.

But Police Minister Stuart Nash says the island is not stable and he will not risk lives.

"We will not give anyone permission to go to the island," Nash said at a late-night press conference on Wednesday. "As mentioned, we need to understand the risks."

On Wednesday, GNS said in hindsight the bodies could have been recovered on Tuesday.

The above link includes the full video report from Paddy Gower which was run on "The Project" on 11 December.

GV27

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#2372879 12-Dec-2019 07:37

CAA regulations for one, if they're planning on flying there.

The people saying "going there is a bad idea" are not management of a company trying to duck liability. They're scientists who spend decades researching volcanoes.

Comparisons to Pike River are correct only in the sense that people are being stopped from putting themselves and others in danger to recover bodies that aren't going anywhere.

It's not just the risk of visible ash, it's the toxic gases, the blast waves from eruptions, etc. The people who know about these things are saying it's too hostile to be there right now. Why is it so hard for New Zealanders to just listen to people who know what they're talking about.

frednz

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#2372882 12-Dec-2019 07:49

GV27:

Why is it so hard for New Zealanders to just listen to people who know what they're talking about.

The people "who know what they're talking about" cannot, unfortunately, accurately predict when the volcano will erupt. It will be interesting to see whether tourists will ever be permitted to walk on the crater again now that, even the experts, failed to predict this major eruption.

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old3eyes

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#2372885 12-Dec-2019 07:52

Fred99:
Technofreak:

frednz:

The question is, should the Police grant his wish and urgently let him make a personal recovery?

Most definitely, Yes. At the same time let the helicopter pilots who have volunteered to go there and recover the rest of the bodies go in.

It's starting to look like Pike River revisited.

Nope.

The activity (drums, RSAM SSAM monitoring) on White Island has really ramped up, the island is covered in ash that'll quite possibly kill chopper motors if they try to land, they've been given the message by experts not to go, so they should damned well heed it.

If some cowboy decide to do it anyway, CAA should take their license. I'm sorry about his dead brother.

Sure hope I don't need your help one day.

Regards,

Old3eyes

Fred99

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#2372888 12-Dec-2019 07:58

old3eyes:

Sure hope I don't need your help one day.

What? When you're already dead?

You overestimate my abilities.

Handsomedan

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#2372889 12-Dec-2019 08:01

eracode:

eracode:

I hope that the Ovation passengers who went on what may have been an excursion promoted via Royal Caribbean were given adequate warning of the nature of the trip. I wonder if the passengers were required to give no-fault waivers etc to RC and/or the tour operator. Don’t know what flag Ovation sails under and what law applies, but litigation for this sort of thing in the US could be astronomical.

Hmmm .... here we go. Possibility of litigation in the US raises its head:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12293004

Ovation of the Seas is a Quantum-class cruise ship owned by Royal Caribbean International and the third ship of her class. The Quantum class is the third largest class of cruise ships behind MSC Cruises's Meraviglia class and Royal Caribbean International's Oasis class by gross tonnage. Wikipedia

Length: 348 m

Capacity: : 4,180 passengers (double occupancy); 4,905 passengers (maximum occupancy);

Speed: 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph)

Port of registry: Nassau, Bahamas

Tonnage: 168,666 GT

Decks: 18 (16 passenger-accessible)

So it looks like it sails out of the Bahamas...tax haven, but not sure if immune from American ambulance-chasers....

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GV27

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#2372890 12-Dec-2019 08:01

frednz:

GV27:

Why is it so hard for New Zealanders to just listen to people who know what they're talking about.

The people "who know what they're talking about" cannot, unfortunately, accurately predict when the volcano will erupt. It will be interesting to see whether tourists will ever be permitted to walk on the crater again now that, even the experts, failed to predict this major eruption.

The experts don't 'predict' eruptions, for a start. This is the same logic that saw geologists in Italy prosecuted because they didn't 'predict' an earthquake. It's nonsense.

They correctly identified there was escalating activity and raised the alert status. It erupted. Seems like they're 1/1 to me.

Those same people are now saying there is a significant chance of an eruption in an extremely short time frame. There is escalating activity on the publicly viewable RSAM plots and a bunch of analysis that the public don't have access to. They aren't just making up as they go along.

Technofreak

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#2372910 12-Dec-2019 08:12

Fred99:

The activity (drums, RSAM SSAM monitoring) on White Island has really ramped up, the island is covered in ash that'll quite possibly kill chopper motors if they try to land, they've been given the message by experts not to go, so they should damned well heed it.

Unless I'm mistaken that same ash was present when the helicopters did the rescue mission the other day.

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#2372913 12-Dec-2019 08:17

Batman:

Technofreak:

frednz:

The question is, should the Police grant his wish and urgently let him make a personal recovery?

Most definitely, Yes. At the same time let the helicopter pilots who have volunteered to go there and recover the rest of the bodies go in.

It's starting to look like Pike River revisited.

how can they control who can go on a private island?

They can restrict airspace due to the dangers which will mean nobody can fly there without permission.

Technofreak

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#2372914 12-Dec-2019 08:17

frankv:

Batman:

how can they control who can go on a private island?

There is a Volcanic Hazard Zone around all the active volcanoes. This increases in size depending on the alert level.

A Volcanic Hazard Zone does not control entry.

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geoffwnz

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#2372931 12-Dec-2019 08:36

So it's possible that they could make a successful recovery mission, but what it they don't? What if there is another eruption of the same scale or bigger than the one the other day, while they are on the island? Who has the liability then? Who gets crucified in the media and courts for "allowing them to go get themselves killed"?

Wanting an open casket is not sufficient justification for putting people and equipment in harms way.

It's typical hero complex.

I know that I will never set foot into any helicopter piloted by those guys because I have no faith in their risk assessment capabilities. I would not trust them with my life.

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frednz

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#2372932 12-Dec-2019 08:38

GV27:

frednz:

GV27:

Why is it so hard for New Zealanders to just listen to people who know what they're talking about.

The people "who know what they're talking about" cannot, unfortunately, accurately predict when the volcano will erupt. It will be interesting to see whether tourists will ever be permitted to walk on the crater again now that, even the experts, failed to predict this major eruption.

The experts don't 'predict' eruptions, for a start. This is the same logic that saw geologists in Italy prosecuted because they didn't 'predict' an earthquake. It's nonsense.

They correctly identified there was escalating activity and raised the alert status. It erupted. Seems like they're 1/1 to me.

Those same people are now saying there is a significant chance of an eruption in an extremely short time frame. There is escalating activity on the publicly viewable RSAM plots and a bunch of analysis that the public don't have access to. They aren't just making up as they go along.

In light of the recent major eruption, the question is, what level of "escalating activity" will be sufficient in future to make the authorities stop people walking on the island. The alert level was a "2" at the time of the recent eruption, but this obviously wasn't regarded as serious because it's been at a "2" on many other occasions without an eruption actually taking place.

So, although the "experts" predicted "escalating activity" it seems that nobody took any notice of this. So, in future, will an alert level of anything above "0" be regarded as sufficient to ban visits?

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