Interesting video about Brexit

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#1579948 25-Jun-2016 09:37

mattwnz:

Finch:

Can somebody please tell me what this means for NZ?

Should I be shopping on some specific websites for some bargains?

Apparently it will cost $150 million a year for the NZ economy according to one expert on RNZ. IANAFE, but think it all depends on what happens to the UK economy now. If it gets worse it should make things cheaper for NZers to buy stuff from the UK. But it will make NZ stuff more expensive for people in the UK, so will be less willing to buy from NZ, or travel to NZ on holiday. But that pressumes NZs dollar doesn't also weaken.

Send MFAT to knock on the door and sort out a trade agreement.

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#1579951 25-Jun-2016 09:40

DarthKermit:

Must be time to close the channel tunnel. Anyone got a spade and a big pile of dirt lying around.

SJB

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#1579953 25-Jun-2016 09:44

networkn:

No, I said <5% of the country could properly understand the far reaching financial consequences of this decision.

I think you're wrong. The remain camp have been hammering the same message about financial doom and gloom for weeks. You would have to be deaf and blind not to have heard it. And it was a very simple message. House prices would fall, jobs would be lost, pensions were at risk etc etc

The majority of voters decided other reasons to leave took precedence.

If the remain camp had provided positive reasons for staying in the EU (if they could think of any) and not campaigned so negatively the result might have been different.

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#1579954 25-Jun-2016 09:45

SJB:

networkn:

No, I said <5% of the country could properly understand the far reaching financial consequences of this decision.

I think you're wrong. The remain camp have been hammering the same message about financial doom and gloom for weeks. You would have to be deaf and blind not to have heard it. And it was a very simple message. House prices would fall, jobs would be lost, pensions were at risk etc etc

The majority of voters decided other reasons to leave took precedence.

If the remain camp had provided positive reasons for staying in the EU (if they could think of any) and not campaigned so negatively the result might have been different.

Exactly

The right thing to do is not always the financially expedient thing to do

shk292

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#1579955 25-Jun-2016 09:46

dejadeadnz:

Private polling on how people voted

Great news for young, working, and well-educated people. Like most things in life involving choices between multilateralism/cooperation versus isolationism and politics of fear, you can always count on the old and dying trying to permanently influence your future, along with the poorly educated/uneducated and stupid.

Just like with the TPPA here?

networkn

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#1579958 25-Jun-2016 09:55

SJB:

networkn:

No, I said <5% of the country could properly understand the far reaching financial consequences of this decision.

I think you're wrong. The remain camp have been hammering the same message about financial doom and gloom for weeks. You would have to be deaf and blind not to have heard it. And it was a very simple message. House prices would fall, jobs would be lost, pensions were at risk etc etc

The majority of voters decided other reasons to leave took precedence.

If the remain camp had provided positive reasons for staying in the EU (if they could think of any) and not campaigned so negatively the result might have been different.

That is a fair point, however in my experience, people in general (voters) are pretty short sighted. I also think that people "switch off" when numbers are thrown around by politicians and people have a hard time understanding the actual impacts. (and because people can twist numbers to present any outcome they like).

I do wonder once jobs are lost, house prices do fall and the financial impact of this decision are being felt, if people will feel differently, and by then it will be too late. It's potentially possible none of those things are going to happen, but I'd predict it as moderately likely. The costs of exiting from an admin perspective alone, need to come from

somewhere, I wonder what Britons expectations of that are, and what they might be prepared to sacrifice? Higher taxes? Reduction in budgets for healthcare, social welfare?

Obviously, I am conservative in my views, because I am risk adverse

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#1579967 25-Jun-2016 09:59

shk292:

Exactly

The right thing to do is not always the financially expedient thing to do

Right, I get that, but it's not just Britan they are impacting. There is a chance of a global recession. I believe people should consider the global impact. Right or wrongly, Britan plays a major part in the way the world's finances are glued together.

Fred99

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#1579974 25-Jun-2016 10:17

networkn:

shk292:

Exactly

The right thing to do is not always the financially expedient thing to do

Right, I get that, but it's not just Britan they are impacting. There is a chance of a global recession. I believe people should consider the global impact. Right or wrongly, Britan plays a major part in the way the world's finances are glued together.

It's not just financial impact either. The result is a victory for xenophobic isolationist factions worldwide - and it's very obvious where those sentiments lead. It's no wonder Trump has joined in to support the angry mob. If extremism becomes mainstream, then we're in dangerous times.

SJB

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#1579975 25-Jun-2016 10:31

Fred99:

networkn:

shk292:

Exactly

The right thing to do is not always the financially expedient thing to do

Right, I get that, but it's not just Britan they are impacting. There is a chance of a global recession. I believe people should consider the global impact. Right or wrongly, Britan plays a major part in the way the world's finances are glued together.

It's not just financial impact either. The result is a victory for xenophobic isolationist factions worldwide - and it's very obvious where those sentiments lead. It's no wonder Trump has joined in to support the angry mob. If extremism becomes mainstream, then we're in dangerous times.

I think you are being unfair in effectively labelling everybody who voted leave as xenophobic. Brits as a group are far less xenophobic than New Zealanders in my experience (at least here on the Mainland they are).

It's not the fear of foreigners that caused people to vote leave. It's the sheer numbers of them moving to the UK that was the problem, 1 million every 3 years in a country that is already overcrowded.

And immigration wasn't the only issue although the press would give you the impression it was. Sovereignty was a major problem with EU law taking precedence over UK law. People like to feel in control of their own country.

Control by unelected officials, creeping federalism etc etc. Any number of issues with the EU caused people to vote the way they did.

dejadeadnz

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#1579990 25-Jun-2016 11:03

MikeB4:
dejadeadnz:

Private polling on how people voted

Great news for young, working, and well-educated people. Like most things in life involving choices between multilateralism/cooperation versus isolationism and politics of fear, you can always count on the old and dying trying to permanently influence your future, along with the poorly educated/uneducated and stupid.

All is good, of the eligible voters more voted to leave then those who voted to stay, simply democracy and universal suffrage in action.

On a pure political, systemic level, that view is fine. But don't blinker yourself to the obvious truth that results like this and the rise of imbeciles of people like Trump (and who their support base are) reveal. The stupid, uneducated and older crowd as an electorate (not every single one of these people are nasty, obviously) have a tendency to be nasty, reactionary, minority-hating, illiberal, and unwilling to see past their own noses. In terms of resources especially, their motto appears to be to steal as much as they can from the young and just leave them to deal with the social, environmental and economic costs in the future. You can interpret the Brexit result as simply majoritarianism in action but I think it can be quite plausibly argued that this is just yet another manifestation of the nasty and abhorrent personal ethics of a lot of this electorate.

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#1579991 25-Jun-2016 11:04

Geektastic:

mattwnz:

Finch:

Can somebody please tell me what this means for NZ?

Should I be shopping on some specific websites for some bargains?

Apparently it will cost $150 million a year for the NZ economy according to one expert on RNZ. IANAFE, but think it all depends on what happens to the UK economy now. If it gets worse it should make things cheaper for NZers to buy stuff from the UK. But it will make NZ stuff more expensive for people in the UK, so will be less willing to buy from NZ, or travel to NZ on holiday. But that pressumes NZs dollar doesn't also weaken.

Send MFAT to knock on the door and sort out a trade agreement.

There are a LOT of other countries that will be years ahead of us.

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#1580013 25-Jun-2016 11:16

dejadeadnz:

On a pure political, systemic level, that view is fine. But don't blinker yourself to the obvious truth that results like this and the rise of imbeciles of people like Trump (and who their support base are) reveal. The stupid, uneducated and older crowd as an electorate (not every single one of these people are nasty, obviously) have a tendency to be nasty, reactionary, minority-hating, illiberal, and unwilling to see past their own noses. In terms of resources especially, their motto appears to be to steal as much as they can from the young and just leave them to deal with the social, environmental and economic costs in the future. You can interpret the Brexit result as simply majoritarianism in action but I think it can be quite plausibly argued that this is just yet another manifestation of the nasty and abhorrent personal ethics of a lot of this electorate.

Jeez, don't hold back on the sweeping generalisations.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

dejadeadnz

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#1580035 25-Jun-2016 11:25

Rikkitic:

Jeez, don't hold back on the sweeping generalisations.

Thanks for the incredible insight. As I freely admitted, by definition not all the individuals within the classes I described are nasty and I obviously don't believe it to be right to immediately judge someone as unworthy per se just because they fit within those groups. Turn down your sensitivity metre for a moment and face some obvious truths. The poll concerned and the graphic that Alexx highlighted revealed consistent, reproducible results across many important issues of our time. Which groups dominate the climate-change deniers, for example? The uneducated, old and stupid. Who hates immigrants and immigration?

SJB

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#1580058 25-Jun-2016 11:39

dejadeadnz:

Rikkitic:

Jeez, don't hold back on the sweeping generalisations.

Thanks for the incredible insight. As I freely admitted, by definition not all the individuals within the classes I described are nasty and I obviously don't believe it to be right to immediately judge someone as unworthy per se just because they fit within those groups. Turn down your sensitivity metre for a moment and face some obvious truths. The poll concerned and the graphic that Alexx highlighted revealed consistent, reproducible results across many important issues of our time. Which groups dominate the climate-change deniers, for example? The uneducated, old and stupid. Who hates immigrants and immigration?

By the tone of your comments I'd say you'd be far happier on another planet.

KrazyKid

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#1580059 25-Jun-2016 11:42

Stepping aside from the current discussion 4 a second. I found this link http://www.iea.org.uk/brexit interesting.
Its a winner from an essay contest on whats the best way to manage a brexit. This was a 2013 contest with a 100k prize so attracted so quality efforts.

Ok resume the dicussion...

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