GCSB Protest March

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#871750 4-Aug-2013 21:28

PaulBags: In your scenario we're being managed by the world, not the other way around.

I don't understand what you're saying.

But really, this is just silly as far as I see it.

We simply need to empower an uncaptured internet.

To me that means a number of things...

1. No bundles. Mobiles with 2Deg, Telecom and Vodafone. Internet access from Telecom, Vodafone, 2Talk, etc. Landlines all VoIP.

2. Aggressive drive to competition This means choosing to support smaller providers and people who are building their own networks.

We've been whacking on about over sight. All this talk about judges and MPs etc is just stupid. None of them have a blind bit of understanding of what they're looking at. Helen Clark was even quoted in the media yesterday as saying there was no illegal spying under her watch because she'd asked for an assurance that everything was legal. Well we know that's just rubbish because even the GCSB guys have said they didn't know what they were doing was illegal and it was them doing it.

The only way to have good technical over sight is to have lots and lots and LOTS of good technical people in the loop.

The only way to ensure that we have lots of technical people in that loop is for us, as consumers, to put our business with lots of providers.

This business of 1 provider having 45% of the market and the other having around the same is just insane. That effectively means 2 people in the technical space having over sight of 90% of the country.

Clearly we also need to stop using these US based corporate providers as well.... and no, I can't talk, I use them all too.

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#871754 4-Aug-2013 21:33

DonGould:
PaulBags: In your scenario we're being managed by the world, not the other way around.

I don't understand what you're saying.

But really, this is just silly as far as I see it.

We simply need to empower an uncaptured internet.

To me that means a number of things...

1. No bundles. Mobiles with 2Deg, Telecom and Vodafone. Internet access from Telecom, Vodafone, 2Talk, etc. Landlines all VoIP.

2. Aggressive drive to competition This means choosing to support smaller providers and people who are building their own networks.

We've been whacking on about over sight. All this talk about judges and MPs etc is just stupid. None of them have a blind bit of understanding of what they're looking at. Helen Clark was even quoted in the media yesterday as saying there was no illegal spying under her watch because she'd asked for an assurance that everything was legal. Well we know that's just rubbish because even the GCSB guys have said they didn't know what they were doing was illegal and it was them doing it.

The only way to have good technical over sight is to have lots and lots and LOTS of good technical people in the loop.

The only way to ensure that we have lots of technical people in that loop is for us, as consumers, to put our business with lots of providers.

This business of 1 provider having 45% of the market and the other having around the same is just insane. That effectively means 2 people in the technical space having over sight of 90% of the country.

Clearly we also need to stop using these US based corporate providers as well.... and no, I can't talk, I use them all too.

Our market is too small for lots and lots of providers, the market is almost over serviced in NZ and we run the risk of profits being too diluted and innovation and product development will suffer.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

DonGould

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#871756 4-Aug-2013 21:43

KiwiNZ: Our market is too small for lots and lots of providers, the market is almost over serviced in NZ and we run the risk of profits being too diluted and innovation and product development will suffer.

That's just rubbish and I think you've clearly drunk way to much of the coolaid.

I've been hearing this crap for decades and decades now and I've just come to realise it's just utter utter rubbish.

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#871759 4-Aug-2013 21:49

It's not *complete* rubbish; you need the best part of a billion dollars to, say, build a mobile network covering everybody in NZ.

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oxnsox

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#871760 4-Aug-2013 21:52

Klipspringer:
Woolly: You can email the members of the club.

Below is an example

Careful. If you using gmail, Google may just be snooping on your emails and passing this information onto Government.

Rather send them snail mail if you would like to remain anonymous.

It just means they'll have 2 copies of your email..... ;-)

DonGould

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#871761 4-Aug-2013 22:01

SaltyNZ: It's not *complete* rubbish; you need the best part of a billion dollars to, say, build a mobile network covering everybody in NZ.

You're just completely missing my point, or just choosing to ignore it.

I agree the on ramp for mobile is hard in New Zealand when compared with other markets in our region.

But the on ramp to be an ISP isn't hard at all.

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#871765 4-Aug-2013 22:19

I saw the following promoted tweet in my twitter time line just now and it strikes me as relevant to this debate

The governments mass collection of data is a pretty similar concept to what the IT industry is calling 'big data'. If you're in IT, no doubt you're heard this latest buzz word more and more in recent months.

The suggestion "Train the machine to define the problem" is of particular interest. If you treat government collected data in this way, and we're talking about masses of information (more than humans can sift through), obviously using computing power to try and make sense of that information. is needed.

But what big data is all about is finding the answers when you don't know the question. The government is essentially doing the same thing. They are looking through masses of information to try and find 'problems' they don't know exist. Once you start letting 'the machine' define that problem for you - that's when it really starts to get scary. Maybe the machine decides you are a criminal because you did a Google search for a pressure cooker on the same day you read a news article about a bombing.

Whether you have done anything wrong or not, your private information should stay private - because you don't know who (or what) is deciding what is right or wrong. Under this law many of the fundamental safeguards the law provides are sidestepped. The bill seeks to shift the power to spy to the hands of only the Prime Minister. That is a LOT of power for one person, and should that person be or become corrupt (now or in the future), there is no going back.

Twitter: ajobbins

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#871776 4-Aug-2013 23:29

Thanks turnin for the "open data" post. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_data

Hi Don, Community networks are quite easy to setup now. Either via WiFi or a hub/switch for internet.

If you do it via cable then run the cable underneath the fence rails to protect it from the sun.

Crimp your own Ethernet connectors and buy cable from wholesalers online.

For pensioners and the like give them old computers that businesses are trying to get rid of.

Ask for donations to maintain the network.

I've got a couple of old 24 port 10/100? hubs sitting on the shelf somewhere PM me and I'll send one to you.

I'm not a network guru so not sure if they're hubs or switches, they'll do the job.

All I know about them is they were to be thrown out because we were going to Gb to the desk, and there were stacks of them along a corridor.

There are alot of pitfalls to watch for. Biggest one is datacaps. Have a search for DD-WRT .

You can also add phones to the network. This gets very tricky especially with the elderly. The reason being some have monitoring systems attached to the phone line.

So if they fall down they can press a button and it goes to a help line.

All of the above may seem daunting, but it's all quite doable.

There are plenty of people willing to help.

There is some legal rubbish about this I'm sure. This is easily overcome by making sure that what your doing is a community service.

The above information is for the community not for profit.

FOR THE MODS: This may need to go into a different topic?

tl;dr LOL;

Woolly

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#871782 5-Aug-2013 00:43

Big Data re: ajobbins post

I worked on a project to find out the cause of trouble tickets (TT) from users.

I can't remember the exact numbers but it was about ~1.5M tickets across ~6K users per year.

The biggest problem found was Outlook >50%.

We knew the biggest problem but we did not know why?

With further text analysis we found out that no one had any training in Outlook.

After this each TT regarding Outlook the user would have training at the desk.

There was big reduction of outlook TT's.

My apologies (tl;dr) if this seems off topic.

With big data like the NSA and GCSB is collecting, when you think you've found the cause. You haven't.

You end up chasing false positives.

SaltyNZ

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#871791 5-Aug-2013 06:09

DonGould:
SaltyNZ: It's not *complete* rubbish; you need the best part of a billion dollars to, say, build a mobile network covering everybody in NZ.

You're just completely missing my point, or just choosing to ignore it.

I agree the on ramp for mobile is hard in New Zealand when compared with other markets in our region.

But the on ramp to be an ISP isn't hard at all.

Sorry, didn't realise you meant ISP specifically. Yes, that is a LOT cheaper. :-)

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

MikeB4

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#871793 5-Aug-2013 06:58

DonGould:
KiwiNZ: Our market is too small for lots and lots of providers, the market is almost over serviced in NZ and we run the risk of profits being too diluted and innovation and product development will suffer.

That's just rubbish and I think you've clearly drunk way to much of the coolaid.

I've been hearing this crap for decades and decades now and I've just come to realise it's just utter utter rubbish.

Not Cool aid just decades of industry experience and commercial reality. The ISP market is currently over supplied with ISP's with still too many bandwagon hopefuls still hanging onto dead businesses. A reality one cannot ignore we have a population of 4.5 million and that will reach maybe 5.5 to 6 million in the next 50+ years. There is no scope for profitable start ups.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#871815 5-Aug-2013 08:35

oxnsox:
Klipspringer:
Woolly: You can email the members of the club.

Below is an example

Careful. If you using gmail, Google may just be snooping on your emails and passing this information onto Government.

Rather send them snail mail if you would like to remain anonymous.

It just means they'll have 2 copies of your email..... ;-)

True.

I hear that there is a risk that posties can read the letters before dumping them into post boxes. What if all the posties start passing this information onto government??? Maybe snail mail is not such a good idea.

You could put all the data onto a USB stick, encrypt it and then send it via a Pigeon.

South Africa is already way ahead of us and embracing this new way of data transfer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212333/Pigeon-post-faster-South-Africas-Telkom.html

:-P

freitasm

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#871829 5-Aug-2013 09:06

Klipspringer: I hear that there is a risk that posties can read the letters before dumping them into post boxes. What if all the posties start passing this information onto government??? Maybe snail mail is not such a good idea.

USPS says it photographs the mail -- all of it.

U.S. Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe confirmed that every item that gets mailed in the country is photographed.

The New York Times reported Saturday that 160 billion letters and packages are photographed each year, and the pictures are made available to law enforcement officials upon request.

Unlike phone records collected by the government, the mail service does not keep the photographs, partly because it would be too expensive to do so, Donahoe said.

Instead, they are discarded after 30 days, the Times said.

"It's done by machine [at 200 processing centers around the country] so there's no central area where any of this information would be," Donahoe said.

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#871839 5-Aug-2013 09:23

freitasm:
Klipspringer: I hear that there is a risk that posties can read the letters before dumping them into post boxes. What if all the posties start passing this information onto government??? Maybe snail mail is not such a good idea.

USPS says it photographs the mail -- all of it.

U.S. Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe confirmed that every item that gets mailed in the country is photographed.

The New York Times reported Saturday that 160 billion letters and packages are photographed each year, and the pictures are made available to law enforcement officials upon request.

Unlike phone records collected by the government, the mail service does not keep the photographs, partly because it would be too expensive to do so, Donahoe said.

Instead, they are discarded after 30 days, the Times said.

"It's done by machine [at 200 processing centers around the country] so there's no central area where any of this information would be," Donahoe said.

LOL I had no idea...

Pigeon's it is then..

DonGould

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#871860 5-Aug-2013 10:15

KiwiNZ: There is no scope for profitable start ups.

Yet I know guys who run just that.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

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