Red Peak to be added as a 5th option on the referendum

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#1393670 24-Sep-2015 15:34

Fly the Red Peak upside down and it becomes the Red Trough. Depends on how the economy is going decides which way it is flown..

Regards,

Old3eyes

DizzyD

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#1393675 24-Sep-2015 15:43

MikeB4:
DizzyD:
MikeB4:
DizzyD:
MikeB4:

The flag has nothing to do with our system of Government
Yes I know that?

Then I really don't know what your statement "Until New Zealand is a republic, and not bound by the crown and/or the treaty between Maori/crown. Whats the point of a new flag?" is for.

Nothing about government mentioned in there?

We could fire the queen very easily without changing government.
All we would need to do is elect a president.

Becoming a Republic or what ever is a change in Government system. We are currently a Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy and change to a Republic would radically change the system of government we currently have. The does not need a system change to change the flag.

There is a difference between a change of the system, and a change of government.

Have a read up on Nepal. They became a republic in 2008. There was no change in government in 2008. They simply striped all power and functions from the King.

Besides, because we live in a democracy, there is very little chance that there would be a change in government if NZ did decide to go down this road.

No we don't need a system change to change the flag. Nor do we need a change of government. But, what is the point of removing the Union Jack from the flag? What is hoped to be achieved here? Most people are fedup with the system and our relations with the UK yes. But a flag change does not address that. The system is still the same.

I support a republic of NZ where there is no more crown "superpower".
Removing the crown will also end the treaty. No more ongoing treaty settlements and wasting of taxpayer money on nonsense claims. If ever we get there, that will be a good time for a new flag. A single flag for NZ that we can all be proud of. Flag changes should happen to symbolize something, a change in the system or a new era. To this day I still don't understand what the motive is behind the current flag change proposal. Why?

MikeB4

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#1393678 24-Sep-2015 15:47

DizzyD:
MikeB4:
DizzyD:
MikeB4:
DizzyD:
MikeB4:

The flag has nothing to do with our system of Government
Yes I know that?

Then I really don't know what your statement "Until New Zealand is a republic, and not bound by the crown and/or the treaty between Maori/crown. Whats the point of a new flag?" is for.

Nothing about government mentioned in there?

We could fire the queen very easily without changing government.
All we would need to do is elect a president.

Becoming a Republic or what ever is a change in Government system. We are currently a Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy and change to a Republic would radically change the system of government we currently have. The does not need a system change to change the flag.

There is a difference between a change of the system, and a change of government.

Have a read up on Nepal. They became a republic in 2008. There was no change in government in 2008. They simply striped all power and functions from the King.

Besides, because we live in a democracy, there is very little chance that there would be a change in government if NZ did decide to go down this road.

I am not talking about a change in Government. If we change to a Republic we would no longer be a Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy that simple, that is a change in government system. This is all moot, it has nothing to do with the flag

mattwnz

20164 posts

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#1393680 24-Sep-2015 15:52

Jaxson:
kiwitrc: I bet said firm have lawyered up and are hoping for a huge payday if NZ has to buy the design rights off them.

lol for some triangles.

IANAIPL, but I think it would depend on if and how it was being protected as a trademark. It is also not exactly the same, infact it is quite different if you look at it in detail (different angles, different shape, different colours), and would be even more different if they switch the colours around so it wasn't a red triangle. When people submitted a flag design, they did have to say if the design came from anywhere. IMO the other flag that made the top 40 which had a very similar design, looked more similar to the logo shape, although it didn't have the red triangle.

Jaxson

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#1393687 24-Sep-2015 15:59

DizzyD: To this day I still don't understand what the motive is behind the current flag change proposal. Why?

Likewise.

DizzyD

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#1393689 24-Sep-2015 16:00

MikeB4:
I am not talking about a change in Government. If we change to a Republic we would no longer be a Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy that simple, that is a change in government system. This is all moot, it has nothing to do with the flag

Instead of becoming a republic we could always fire the queen of England and hand over our monarchy to Te Arikinui Kiingi Tuheitia.
Now there is an idea.

I agree all this should have nothing to do with the flag. My point though is that the current flag reflects our monarchy with the Queen as Sovereign. None of the new flag proposals do. Why?

n4

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#1393736 24-Sep-2015 17:20

DizzyD:
MikeB4:
I am not talking about a change in Government. If we change to a Republic we would no longer be a Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy that simple, that is a change in government system. This is all moot, it has nothing to do with the flag

I agree all this should have nothing to do with the flag. My point though is that the current flag reflects our monarchy with the Queen as Sovereign. None of the new flag proposals do. Why?

Why should they? None of the other Commonwealth realm flags (except Australia, Tuvalu and the UK) do. The Union Jack represents the UK, not the queen (IMO).

In my view, the question is not why should we change the flag, but why haven't we changed it yet? The time is well overdue for NZ to take on it's own identity and step out from the shadow of the UK and Australia. That is not to reject those two countries or our heritage as NZ, but just to reflect that we are an independent nation and not beholden to anyone.

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Fred99

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#1393744 24-Sep-2015 17:32

DizzyD:
MikeB4:
I am not talking about a change in Government. If we change to a Republic we would no longer be a Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy that simple, that is a change in government system. This is all moot, it has nothing to do with the flag

Instead of becoming a republic we could always fire the queen of England and hand over our monarchy to Te Arikinui Kiingi Tuheitia.
Now there is an idea.

I agree all this should have nothing to do with the flag. My point though is that the current flag reflects our monarchy with the Queen as Sovereign. None of the new flag proposals do. Why?

Well I'm just hazarding a guess that the dear old Queen's days are numbered, and as her successor King Charles might not muster the kind of popular support the Queen has managed to maintain for a very long time, the antiquated concept of 'monarchy" will hopefully soon (not wishing ill for the Queen) be relegated to history books and fairy tales - IOW where it belongs.
It would be damned stupid to include reference to Great Britain in a NZ flag for the future.
If the poms want to keep a monarchy for ceremonial / historical reasons, then that's up to them. It should have no place in NZ government - except as a historical concept.

Dratsab

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#1393881 24-Sep-2015 20:47

mattwnz:
Jaxson:
kiwitrc: I bet said firm have lawyered up and are hoping for a huge payday if NZ has to buy the design rights off them.

lol for some triangles.

IANAIPL, but I think it would depend on if and how it was being protected as a trademark. It is also not exactly the same, infact it is quite different if you look at it in detail (different angles, different shape, different colours), and would be even more different if they switch the colours around so it wasn't a red triangle. When people submitted a flag design, they did have to say if the design came from anywhere. IMO the other flag that made the top 40 which had a very similar design, looked more similar to the logo shape, although it didn't have the red triangle.

Peak Engineering have already stated their logo was not trademarked and they would grant a licence to anyone wanting to use it. They seem to feel quite flattered by this whole debacle.

mattwnz

20164 posts

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#1393915 24-Sep-2015 21:05

Fred99:
Well I'm just hazarding a guess that the dear old Queen's days are numbered, and as her successor King Charles might not muster the kind of popular support the Queen has managed to maintain for a very long time, the antiquated concept of 'monarchy" will hopefully soon (not wishing ill for the Queen) be relegated to history books and fairy tales - IOW where it belongs.
It would be damned stupid to include reference to Great Britain in a NZ flag for the future.
If the poms want to keep a monarchy for ceremonial / historical reasons, then that's up to them. It should have no place in NZ government - except as a historical concept.

Everyones days are numbered. Her mother did live till over 100, and there is no reason shoe won't out survive her. Potentially should could have another 20 + years in her.

Fred99

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#1393980 24-Sep-2015 22:28

mattwnz:
Fred99:
Well I'm just hazarding a guess that the dear old Queen's days are numbered, and as her successor King Charles might not muster the kind of popular support the Queen has managed to maintain for a very long time, the antiquated concept of 'monarchy" will hopefully soon (not wishing ill for the Queen) be relegated to history books and fairy tales - IOW where it belongs.
It would be damned stupid to include reference to Great Britain in a NZ flag for the future.
If the poms want to keep a monarchy for ceremonial / historical reasons, then that's up to them. It should have no place in NZ government - except as a historical concept.

Everyones days are numbered. Her mother did live till over 100, and there is no reason shoe won't out survive her. Potentially should could have another 20 + years in her.

She's 89, and not doing too badly. 109+ ? Anything's possible I guess.

mattwnz

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#1393994 24-Sep-2015 23:01

Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
Well I'm just hazarding a guess that the dear old Queen's days are numbered, and as her successor King Charles might not muster the kind of popular support the Queen has managed to maintain for a very long time, the antiquated concept of 'monarchy" will hopefully soon (not wishing ill for the Queen) be relegated to history books and fairy tales - IOW where it belongs.
It would be damned stupid to include reference to Great Britain in a NZ flag for the future.
If the poms want to keep a monarchy for ceremonial / historical reasons, then that's up to them. It should have no place in NZ government - except as a historical concept.

Everyones days are numbered. Her mother did live till over 100, and there is no reason shoe won't out survive her. Potentially should could have another 20 + years in her.

She's 89, and not doing too badly. 109+ ? Anything's possible I guess.

It is likely she will outlive Charles. Poeple who do make it to a hundred often does outlive their children. His father though is also a long liver, but he doesn't look well.

eracode

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#1394011 25-Sep-2015 03:26

kiwitrc:

I'm pretty sure that if the New Zealand forces were in Afghanistan with the Red Peak flag flashing on their uniforms, the Taliban are not going to be thinking "We're being attacked by a North Carolina engineering firm." In fact, I'd say that outside of North Carolina very few people would have ever heard of Peak Engineering or be able to identify their company logo.

Although I bet said firm have lawyered up and are hoping for a huge payday if NZ has to buy the design rights off them.

No - they have publicly said they have no issues with the possibility of Red Peak becoming the NZ flag. They also complimented NZ on looking at a distinctive and elegant design which would not be confused with their logo - or words to that effect.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

JayADee

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#1394012 25-Sep-2015 05:18

I think it's better than the other four, and better than most country's but I look at Canada's on the world flag chart and wonder if we couldn't do better. I thought a kiwi would look silly until I saw it on those uniforms. It looks surprisingly good on their patches.

Edit: spelling

kiwitrc

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#1394013 25-Sep-2015 05:52

eracode:
kiwitrc:

I'm pretty sure that if the New Zealand forces were in Afghanistan with the Red Peak flag flashing on their uniforms, the Taliban are not going to be thinking "We're being attacked by a North Carolina engineering firm." In fact, I'd say that outside of North Carolina very few people would have ever heard of Peak Engineering or be able to identify their company logo.

Although I bet said firm have lawyered up and are hoping for a huge payday if NZ has to buy the design rights off them.

No - they have publicly said they have no issues with the possibility of Red Peak becoming the NZ flag. They also complimented NZ on looking at a distinctive and elegant design which would not be confused with their logo - or words to that effect.

I am obviously getting far too cynical with the passing of the years :)

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