DizzyD:

Oldmanakbar: 

If the countries sharing information and going about airstrikes in the region already knew where these supposedly critical targets were, why were they not eliminated a long time ago? They obviously have the intelligence (satellites, drones etc) to know where everything not underground or in a cave is, and they definitely have the means to destroy them.

Now there is a reason to blast them. 

Oldmanakbar: 
I just don't get it. People go on about how there is no real target etc etc, but with ISIS there actually is. They have definable infrastructure that can be destroyed. 
Destroying that definitely hurts them, they do not have unlimited resources. Not to mention putting the fear of god into anyone considering joining their insane cause is psychological warfare 101.

Everyone knows where all of their strongholds are. Time to take the gloves off maybe?

Yes, I am aware there are innocent civilians everywhere. Yes I am aware the situation is complex. But at some point in large scale conflict someone needs to weigh up short term pain for long term gain.

If it continues as it currently is the death toll will be even more nuts than it is now. Far far larger military conflicts have been launched for far less in the past, some of them recently.

Europe is in the cr@p. And there are no real solutions. 
Taking out the enemy is no longer an option. Its against human rights to do so anymore. ISIS knows it, and they are using this as leverage for their own agenda and gain.
There is a good documentary on youtube called "With Open Gates". Go have a look at it and you will see what Europe is really up against. 

What can they do? I don't know if this problem is really solvable in the short term. All I know is that Germany/France will no longer be the same places in 10-20 years from now. Europe really does need to act now.

Oldmanakbar:

MikeB4:

DizzyD: Looks like France is wasting no time and has started bombing Syria.

France announces Raqqa airstrikes on ISIS

Is this the start of another war? 

The War started a long time ago.

France was already involved in joint operations over Syria

Serious question. I know this derails the conversation a bit from Paris, but it is connected.

If the countries sharing information and going about airstrikes in the region already knew where these supposedly critical targets were, why were they not eliminated a long time ago? They obviously have the intelligence (satellites, drones etc) to know where everything not underground or in a cave is, and they definitely have the means to destroy them.


I just don't get it. People go on about how there is no real target etc etc, but with ISIS there actually is. They have definable infrastructure that can be destroyed. 
Destroying that definitely hurts them, they do not have unlimited resources. Not to mention putting the fear of god into anyone considering joining their insane cause is psychological warfare 101.

Everyone knows where all of their strongholds are. Time to take the gloves off maybe?

Yes, I am aware there are innocent civilians everywhere. Yes I am aware the situation is complex. But at some point in large scale conflict someone needs to weigh up short term pain for long term gain.

If it continues as it currently is the death toll will be even more nuts than it is now. Far far larger military conflicts have been launched for far less in the past, some of them recently.

MikeB4: 


What ?????

DizzyD:


..... This very thread is all about gun nuts .....

DizzyD:

Oldmanakbar: 

If the countries sharing information and going about airstrikes in the region already knew where these supposedly critical targets were, why were they not eliminated a long time ago? They obviously have the intelligence (satellites, drones etc) to know where everything not underground or in a cave is, and they definitely have the means to destroy them.

Now there is a reason to blast them. 

Oldmanakbar: 
I just don't get it. People go on about how there is no real target etc etc, but with ISIS there actually is. They have definable infrastructure that can be destroyed. 
Destroying that definitely hurts them, they do not have unlimited resources. Not to mention putting the fear of god into anyone considering joining their insane cause is psychological warfare 101.

Everyone knows where all of their strongholds are. Time to take the gloves off maybe?

Yes, I am aware there are innocent civilians everywhere. Yes I am aware the situation is complex. But at some point in large scale conflict someone needs to weigh up short term pain for long term gain.

If it continues as it currently is the death toll will be even more nuts than it is now. Far far larger military conflicts have been launched for far less in the past, some of them recently.

Europe is in the cr@p. And there are no real solutions. 
Taking out the enemy is no longer an option. Its against human rights to do so anymore. ISIS knows it, and they are using this as leverage for their own agenda and gain.
There is a good documentary on youtube called "With Open Gates". Go have a look at it and you will see what Europe is really up against. 

What can they do? I don't know if this problem is really solvable in the short term. All I know is that Germany/France will no longer be the same places in 10-20 years from now. Europe really does need to act now. As a start, ban Sharia law and the practices of Islam. 

sir1963: 
And who is the enemy, the 99.99999% of muslims in the world who have done nothing ?

Judging by your post, can you truly say you are any different from them ?

DizzyD:

sir1963: 
And who is the enemy, the 99.99999% of muslims in the world who have done nothing ?

Judging by your post, can you truly say you are any different from them ?

Got anything to back up that 99.99999% ;-)

The enemy are those that are trying to overthrow democracy and replace it with sharia law.
I'm pro-democracy, so yes truly different. 

MikeB4:

DizzyD:

sir1963: 
And who is the enemy, the 99.99999% of muslims in the world who have done nothing ?

Judging by your post, can you truly say you are any different from them ?

Got anything to back up that 99.99999% ;-)

The enemy are those that are trying to overthrow democracy and replace it with sharia law.
I'm pro-democracy, so yes truly different. 

There is in excess of 2Billion Muslims globally, they are not all terrorists or extremist. There percentage involved in conflict would be very small well less than 1% probably more like less than 0.01%

DizzyD:

MikeB4:

DizzyD:

sir1963: 
And who is the enemy, the 99.99999% of muslims in the world who have done nothing ?

Judging by your post, can you truly say you are any different from them ?

Got anything to back up that 99.99999% ;-)

The enemy are those that are trying to overthrow democracy and replace it with sharia law.
I'm pro-democracy, so yes truly different. 

There is in excess of 2Billion Muslims globally, they are not all terrorists or extremist. There percentage involved in conflict would be very small well less than 1% probably more like less than 0.01%

I'm confused. Why are you bringing Muslims into this discussion. Its actually got nothing to do with the topic at all.

DizzyD:  As a start, ban Sharia law and the practices of Islam. 

DizzyD:

sir1963: 
And who is the enemy, the 99.99999% of muslims in the world who have done nothing ?

Judging by your post, can you truly say you are any different from them ?

Got anything to back up that 99.99999% ;-)

The enemy are those that are trying to overthrow democracy and replace it with sharia law.
I'm pro-democracy, so yes truly different. 

DaveB:

DizzyD: 


..... This very thread is all about gun nuts .....

Having started this thread, can I please suggest that you are incorrect? It is not about "gun nuts". It was a sympathetic statement about the awful events in Paris followed by a simple question "What will Europe look like in another 10 years time?". 

Statistics about gun laws and religious fervour are not the issues here (or at the most, quite minor compared to the real issues). 

Having left the UK 40 years ago, (but returning every two years to visit family), it saddens me to witness the continuing decline throughout Europe and the increasing racial hatred from good middle class people who are seeing their countries being changed before their very eyes. One has to ask why this is? 

What is actually turning people against each other now in such a way that even multi generation Europeans feel that they do not belong or fit into their own country?

1. Relaxed and often uncontrolled immigration policies.
2. Wide open borders.
3. Law-enforced political correctness.
4. Freedom for hate preachers.
5. Human rights lawyers and activists, blindly supporting those who have done, and continue, to do wrong.

It's all very well and idealistic to have these policies and in some cases impossible to undo. Surely the question has to be "How do you make immigrants fit in"? Many have been raised with anti western ideologies and seek to change their new country's way of life. Many fit in and enjoy their new homes, only to see their children turn against their way of life for some new ideology that does not make sense to us westerners. They feel like outcasts and the question has to be "why" and "what can we do about it"?

How do you allow multi generational Europeans to hang onto their heritage and not feel that it is being stripped away from them? 

So, Europe in another 10 years time? It certainly wont be a relaxed multicultural society. It will be divided like nothing we have ever seen, like Belfast many years ago. But on a much larger scale.

DizzyD:

MikeB4:

DizzyD:

sir1963: 
And who is the enemy, the 99.99999% of muslims in the world who have done nothing ?

Judging by your post, can you truly say you are any different from them ?

Got anything to back up that 99.99999% ;-)

The enemy are those that are trying to overthrow democracy and replace it with sharia law.
I'm pro-democracy, so yes truly different. 

There is in excess of 2Billion Muslims globally, they are not all terrorists or extremist. There percentage involved in conflict would be very small well less than 1% probably more like less than 0.01%

I'm confused. Why are you bringing Muslims into this discussion. Its actually got nothing to do with the topic at all.

DizzyD:

MikeB4:

DizzyD:

sir1963: 
And who is the enemy, the 99.99999% of muslims in the world who have done nothing ?

Judging by your post, can you truly say you are any different from them ?

Got anything to back up that 99.99999% ;-)

The enemy are those that are trying to overthrow democracy and replace it with sharia law.
I'm pro-democracy, so yes truly different. 

There is in excess of 2Billion Muslims globally, they are not all terrorists or extremist. There percentage involved in conflict would be very small well less than 1% probably more like less than 0.01%

I'm confused. Why are you bringing Muslims into this discussion. Its actually got nothing to do with the topic at all.