Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


1405 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 260

Subscriber

Topic # 151676 1-Sep-2014 19:25
5 people support this post
Send private message

Just watching Campbell Live now: http://www.3news.co.nz/TVShows/CampbellLive (article not up on the website yet).

They were going from family to family checking out their fringes and what they had inside - I thought to myself "this will be interesting".

The first was a solo parent with two kids, no smokes, no alcohol - just the bare necessities and not even a car. All good, a legitimate example of someone struggling and trying to make ends meet and someone I have no problem helping out because it appears she is what I'd call 'the genuinely needy'.

Then the next two families, parents plus five kids followed by another family of parents with six kids; do the parents even think of asking themselves whether they had the means to support their kids before having them? I can understand wanting to help the kids but here are two problems:

1) If you're not going to address the bad decision making then you'll have the next generation repeating the same mistakes their parents made and the cycle will repeat indefinitely.

2) Parental accountability to send a clear message to the community that you don't just go out, make lifestyle choices then expect the rest of society to pick up the pieces - it isn't fair on tax payers and it isn't fair on the kids who are born into such a situation.

Just had to vent because it frustrates me no end when I see these stories on Campbell Live.

Oh, and I'm not an ACT/National Party voter.




Laptop: MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017)
Desktop: iMac (27-inch, 2017)
Smartphone: iPhone X 256GB 'Space Grey'
Additional devices: Unifi Security Gateway, Unifi Switch, Unifi AP AC HD, Unifi Cloud Key, Apple TV 4K 64GB
Services: iCloud, YouTube Premium, Wordpress, Skinny

 


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | ... | 16
116 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 24


  Reply # 1119881 1-Sep-2014 19:34
3 people support this post
Send private message

I havent seen the campbell live (work frown )

 

however I agree with OP,
my main gripe is with large families on welfare, popping out another child to increase the amount they get, then crying that it's not enough.


13143 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6164

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1119883 1-Sep-2014 19:39
One person supports this post
Send private message

What were the full circumstances and histories of the families?




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


1791 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 109


  Reply # 1119906 1-Sep-2014 19:52
Send private message

I totally understand ned to vent I go off quite a bit as time goes by.

The problem that you are talking about is the volume of kids that you cant afford to support. There are sometimes circumstances that cause this loss of a partner accidents etc etc

What needs to be addressed is the culture that needs to be changed. Good luck with that as its a real political suicide suggesting anything to do with reduction of family units.

Not only for the people living in the 16th century they hate it being mentioned, but also commerce needs consumers so they want the ....... how can i say this with out getting death threats.... lower... less... socially challenged? (that will sneak past) to breed. That is where the change has to come about. Right at the beginning 




Is an English Man living in New Zealand. Not a writer, an Observer he says. Graham is a seasoned 'traveler" with his sometimes arrogant, but honest opinion on life. He loves the Internet!.

 

gnfb on trademe travelkit.nz

GNFB Geeks Out on Geekzone

Email Me


11905 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3858

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1119928 1-Sep-2014 20:27
3 people support this post
Send private message

I just spent 4 weeks in SE Asia shooting foreign aid projects.

Believe me, no one in NZ needs to live in poverty and compared to many of the people I see in my work there, none of them do.

The word is misused here IMV. There may be plenty of people whose choices and/or circumstances have left them without adequate funds but that is not the same as scraping a subsistence living in a leaky bamboo hut with a dirt floor, no toilets, no water, no power, no medical care, no schooling, no WINZ, no ACC etc etc etc





4090 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 733

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1119951 1-Sep-2014 20:54
2 people support this post
Send private message

I agree, but what are policy makers supposed to do? You can't just leave the kids to suffer, and you can't forcibly remove anyone's ability to have kids without violating their human rights.

403 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 208

Subscriber

  Reply # 1119956 1-Sep-2014 20:59
10 people support this post
Send private message

Always love the righties coming out on these stories to tell everyone about how poor people are obviously just poor because they're stupid, because they have too many kids, because they make bad decisions and *someone* needs to make these people responsible! Won't *someone* do something?

Yeah, well, there's one solution to this problem. Greater wealth. There's no ifs and buts about it. Poor families create a cycle of basically everything bad - poor education, leading to poor decision making, leading to poor work opportunities. Poor people have less access to contraceptives, poorer sex ed, and poorer social environments - leading to bigger families. Bigger families lead to worse education, kids with lower expectations in life, kids more likely to feel like there is nothing left for them but crime. Poverty is the root cause of all of this.

So, how does Geekzone propose we solve the problem?

gnfb: Let's stop the poor people breeding! Yeah, I love chinese solutions too.

kawaii: "Parental accountability" This is a favourite phrase of welfare-bashers who just want to say "It's the POOOR PEOPLE's fault for not TAKING RESPONSIBILITY!". Yeah, nice easy solution for you, mate, eh? Requires no thinking, and you feel vindicated as you dehumanise the 'problem'!

"people fixated that they must get married by a certain time" Seriously? I think you'll find most of these families are the result of shotgun weddings to make the best of unwanted pregnancies. Remember, abortion is only legal in NZ if two doctors agree that a woman is in danger from her pregnancy - not because she simply didn't mean to have it.

Geektastic: "Other people are poorer, thus NZ poverty doesn't exist and people should stop whining". Yeah, because other countries are worse, we should simply throw up our hands and leave the problem alone. Let the kids go to bed hungry and wake up with a stomach digesting itself. F* em', they made bad decisions.

So what are some real solutions? Well, how about feeding the dam* kids? Despite the fact that Campbell Live present a workable and proven-effective strategy (as attested by the featured principals), all we hear about on GZ is about how poor people need to stop having kids.

I donated $100 to kidscan, and I hope all of you pitched in whatever you can afford. I'm also probably voting for the Greens - the only party actually making a real stand on this issue.

2561 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1207


  Reply # 1120027 1-Sep-2014 21:59
6 people support this post
Send private message

It's a multi-faceted problem, and there are a variety of circumstances out there.

Those who ripdog labels tries to apply the pejorative of "righties" to can always find clear examples of annoyingly feckless and incompetent people who are fully to blame for their own circumstances, irresponsibly serially produce kids they can't afford, and loudly demand that the government is responsible and must pay. And there are actually plenty of people like that out there. Those on the other side of the political spectrum can always find examples of hard-working families who are in difficulty through things beyond their reasonable control, and there are plenty of those out there as well. And there are a whole bunch of people who fall between these extremes as well. But actually picking straw men (by either side) is more than a bit asinine.

Because poverty is complex, there isn't a magical panacea solution that will somehow fix it. In some cases a form of welfare "tough love" is clearly warranted. In other cases more assistance and support (say topping up the wages of someone who has skills that aren't worth the minimum wage, or paying for training, or funding the modification of a disabled person's house so that they can remain at home and/or remain employed is a good idea. In other cases helping large families afford costs - rent, food, power is the right solution.

But part of a long-term solution is breaking the cycle. Not just immediate help but by trying to ensure that everyone has access to an education, and (as far as their basic talent realistically permits) a chance to acquire the skills that they need to earn a decent living.

But whatever is done also has to be affordable, tolerable to the majority who pay for it through taxes, and sustainable - and also not create crazy behavioural incentives. For instance, a capable person ought to earn materially more in a basic job than they do on welfare, otherwise there is no incentive to work.

Ultimately it's economic settings and performance that determine wealth - through skills, investment and productive endeavour. Absent a fairy godmother or tooth fairy, windmilling your arms and loudly shouting "Greater wealth. There's no ifs and buts about it." is infantile unless you go the next step and outline the evidence-based economic policies needed to generate that wealth. If it isn't generated, it isn't there to be gathered and shared.

21463 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4362

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1120043 1-Sep-2014 22:14
9 people support this post
Send private message

This is just another attempt by campbell live to scramble for attention. Ignore it.




Richard rich.ms

403 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 208

Subscriber

  Reply # 1120046 1-Sep-2014 22:14
Send private message

richms: This is just another attempt by campbell live to scramble for attention. Ignore it.


Ladies and Gentlemen: This is a New Zealander. Wow.

21463 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4362

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1120053 1-Sep-2014 22:17
5 people support this post
Send private message

ripdog:
richms: This is just another attempt by campbell live to scramble for attention. Ignore it.


Ladies and Gentlemen: This is a New Zealander. Wow.


What? Because I dont get sucked in by one sided pieces on TV trying to get people to interact?




Richard rich.ms

403 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 208

Subscriber

  Reply # 1120055 1-Sep-2014 22:18
One person supports this post
Send private message

richms:
ripdog:
richms: This is just another attempt by campbell live to scramble for attention. Ignore it.


Ladies and Gentlemen: This is a New Zealander. Wow.


What? Because I dont get sucked in by one sided pieces on TV trying to get people to interact?


Donate to a fantastic charity making drastic improvements in the live of impoverished children? Screw them, right, the attention seekers? You aren't donating to campbell live, you do realise?

21463 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4362

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1120058 1-Sep-2014 22:20
4 people support this post
Send private message

ripdog: Donate to a fantastic charity making drastic improvements in the live of impoverished children? Screw them, right, the attention seekers? You aren't donating to campbell live, you do realise?


Im not donating anywhere because campbell live decided to promote this charity to attract discussion and viewership. I donate where I see fit.




Richard rich.ms

403 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 208

Subscriber

  Reply # 1120060 1-Sep-2014 22:21
Send private message

richms:
ripdog: Donate to a fantastic charity making drastic improvements in the live of impoverished children? Screw them, right, the attention seekers? You aren't donating to campbell live, you do realise?


Im not donating anywhere because campbell live decided to promote this charity to attract discussion and viewership. I donate where I see fit.


Donate where you see fit. But telling others to avoiding donating to such an important cause because you don't like the messenger is very bad form.

21463 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4362

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1120065 1-Sep-2014 22:24
4 people support this post
Send private message

Im telling them to avoid feeding the campbell live BS machine.




Richard rich.ms

4977 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1323

Trusted
Microsoft

  Reply # 1120067 1-Sep-2014 22:25
Send private message

Raise taxes off all these rich pricks and redistribute it too these poor families who cant say no to having more offspring even though they are already not well off

 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | ... | 16
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.