NEW HOUSE which switch/router and UFB ETP?

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floydie

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#131120 9-Oct-2013 19:54

ok so we are planning the new build and a few questions.
I am an industrial sparky and havent touched a house since i was an apprentice. :)

I'm looking at having a media cupboard in the center of the house that the HTPC/AMP/Router/switch and maybe a UPS will be in.

1) whats a good switch system to use? i'm guessing at least a 16 way for our 4 bed+study+lounge+family area kitchen.

2) do i run the green UFB fiber conduit and phone line to the outside of the building or to my media cupboard?

3) whats a good wifi router with a decent amount of wired ports? our lynksys is dying so its a good time to upgrade as the lynksys seemed unable to cope with more than 5 wireless devices at a time

i plan on putting draw wires all through the house for extra PP's and stuff like speaker and ELV wiring for LED lights etc so if i need to upgrade anything, the draw wires will be there ready.

anything else i need to consider such as alarm integration or network CCTV??

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#911612 9-Oct-2013 20:14

2) I just had fiber installed. It connects to a box on the outside of the house, then another run goes to where the fiber modem is installed.

3) Ubiquiti stuff is meant to be good.

Good idea asking people who've done it before. I can't help much. My suggestions are power points everywhere, conduit wherever you think you might need it, ethernet everywhere. Conduit between the back of the TV and the base of the wall for a clean wall, but also another conduit up to the ceiling, down to under the ground, plus a few that run floor to ceiling throughout the house.

Unrelated - if you have downlights, sealed LED downlights you can insulate over are a good idea. Standard downlights are awful for insulation. PVC double glazed windows are great. Pay attention to insulation, it'll save you money in the long run.

DarthKermit

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#911643 9-Oct-2013 20:26

2) do i run the green UFB fiber conduit and phone line to the outside of the building or to my media cupboard

Only as far as the outside of the building. It's only used to protect the cables/fibre underground.

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sbiddle

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#911827 10-Oct-2013 01:31

A router will no doubt be supplied your ISP so you really need to look at who you're planning to sign up with to decide whether this is a good option or not.

chevrolux

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#911879 10-Oct-2013 08:23

24-port GigE switches are dime a dozen now. Other option is to get less ports but add PoE. Could be handy for Wireless Access Points, IP cameras etc.

Run two Cat5e (or Cat6) cables to where the external duct will terminate on your house. Also install a general power outlet next to these Cat 6 cables. The ONT can then easily be installed in this location and no need to worry when the boys come to do your install.

Most of the ISP supplied routers are fine for the home enviroment. My personal favourites are the Fritzbox from Snap and the AudioCodes MP264 from WorldXChange.

In terms of wifi I would be running cables to strategic points in the house and sticking them out the ceiling. Then get yourself some Ubiquiti Unifi's ('Pro' version if dollars allow) and you will be away.

For CCTV just run network cabling as IP cameras can be powered from PoE.

Run a Cat cable to your alarm and then make sure your installer installs an IP interface on your alarm for monitoring. Standard dial-up monitoring is not an option through VoIP. Give AlarmNZ a google and that is where you can get IP-Dial up converters for any old alarms.

timmmay

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#911888 10-Oct-2013 08:43

How will cat6 to an external termination point help UFB? The fibre modem (I forget the proper name) goes in a server cupboard type area.

If your alarm runs over UFB then you'll want a UPS that will power the network equipment for a week. A common (or at least known) way to get around alarm systems when people are on holiday is to switch off mains power and come back 5 days later and break a window. This is why I have a cellular module in my alarm, and an extra large battery.

chevrolux

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#912193 10-Oct-2013 17:31

The ONT can go anywhere. All you need is a link from the ONT location back to your gear where it can plug in to a router. I didn't say run the Cat6 outside. Just simply run it to where the duct hits the house and then chuck a GPO there.

Most people's lead-in's will come to the garage which is an ideal place for the ONT. And running network cabling to where the fibre will enter the house makes the UFB installation much quicker and stress free.

My thoughts towards doing it yourself is that if you are asking the question on a forum then I am going to give an answer that is the hardest to screw up. It is extremely difficult to run a network cable incorrectly whereas conduit is much easier to screw up. Joe Bloggs will go to the electrical store and see all the cool bends, junctions elbows etc that are available for conduit and create a conduit path with sharp 90 degree bends. This is just going to cause so so many issues when the installers come to do the job. They rely on using a rod to draw the fibre through the duct. If a lot of elbox are used it makes it either extremely hard or just impossible. If you want to run a duct it needs to be done properly and, quite honestly, if you need to ask how to do this you shouldn't do it yourself. I feel I am 'qualified' to say this because I have been on the receiving end of Joe Bloggs' conduit installs. Quite often it ended with me saying, sorry... I am cutting a whole in your GIB. So to summarise, run a copper cable to where the ETP will be. Install power outlet. Done.

InstallerUFB

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#913850 11-Oct-2013 19:39

floydie: ok so we are planning the new build and a few questions.
I am an industrial sparky and havent touched a house since i was an apprentice. :)

I'm looking at having a media cupboard in the center of the house that the HTPC/AMP/Router/switch and maybe a UPS will be in.

1) whats a good switch system to use? i'm guessing at least a 16 way for our 4 bed+study+lounge+family area kitchen.

2) do i run the green UFB fiber conduit and phone line to the outside of the building or to my media cupboard?

3) whats a good wifi router with a decent amount of wired ports? our lynksys is dying so its a good time to upgrade as the lynksys seemed unable to cope with more than 5 wireless devices at a time

i plan on putting draw wires all through the house for extra PP's and stuff like speaker and ELV wiring for LED lights etc so if i need to upgrade anything, the draw wires will be there ready.

anything else i need to consider such as alarm integration or network CCTV??

In Answer to 2 - a pathway (ducted/conduited or 25mm+ holes straight through framming etc) is required between proposed ETP (External Test Point) and where the ONT may be located / If the ONT is to be located in an other location other than that of the Router (either yours or one from a provider) ie in a garage area, then at least two Cat5+ cables are required - one for data and the other for voice, if required (if your or future provider use the ATA ports on the ONT) dont forget that the current Chorus ONTs have ports for 4 providers and two ATA ports / So the same location is best or have good pathways for additional cabling if required

Alarm intergration - I would consider IP based monitoring/reporting or a cellular based connection

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DarthKermit

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#914157 12-Oct-2013 16:47

chevrolux: My thoughts towards doing it yourself is that if you are asking the question on a forum then I am going to give an answer that is the hardest to screw up. It is extremely difficult to run a network cable incorrectly whereas conduit is much easier to screw up. Joe Bloggs will go to the electrical store and see all the cool bends, junctions elbows etc that are available for conduit and create a conduit path with sharp 90 degree bends. This is just going to cause so so many issues when the installers come to do the job. They rely on using a rod to draw the fibre through the duct. If a lot of elbows are used it makes it either extremely hard or just impossible. If you want to run a duct it needs to be done properly and, quite honestly, if you need to ask how to do this you shouldn't do it yourself. I feel I am 'qualified' to say this because I have been on the receiving end of Joe Bloggs' conduit installs. Quite often it ended with me saying, sorry... I am cutting a whole in your GIB. So to summarise, run a copper cable to where the ETP will be. Install power outlet. Done.

Is that generally because home DIYers don't use sweep bends?

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surfisup1000

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#914193 12-Oct-2013 19:03

floydie:
1) whats a good switch system to use? i'm guessing at least a 16 way for our 4 bed+study+lounge+family area kitchen.

I bought a budget 24 port gig switch (cnet i think) -- it was noisy (fan), hot, and failed after 30 months.

So, went a bit more upmarket, and got a 24 port gigabit HP Procurve (Fanless) with a lifetime warranty. Absolutely brilliant!!! Runs silently 24x7, and no probs whatsoever.

You may find extra ports handy for things like file servers, homerun tv tuner type devices, and HDMI cat6 extenders patching.

chevrolux

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#914333 13-Oct-2013 15:14

DarthKermit:
chevrolux: My thoughts towards doing it yourself is that if you are asking the question on a forum then I am going to give an answer that is the hardest to screw up. It is extremely difficult to run a network cable incorrectly whereas conduit is much easier to screw up. Joe Bloggs will go to the electrical store and see all the cool bends, junctions elbows etc that are available for conduit and create a conduit path with sharp 90 degree bends. This is just going to cause so so many issues when the installers come to do the job. They rely on using a rod to draw the fibre through the duct. If a lot of elbows are used it makes it either extremely hard or just impossible. If you want to run a duct it needs to be done properly and, quite honestly, if you need to ask how to do this you shouldn't do it yourself. I feel I am 'qualified' to say this because I have been on the receiving end of Joe Bloggs' conduit installs. Quite often it ended with me saying, sorry... I am cutting a whole in your GIB. So to summarise, run a copper cable to where the ETP will be. Install power outlet. Done.

Is that generally because home DIYers don't use sweep bends?

Yep exactly. Or they use flexi conduit which is just as unhelpful as a tight 90*. Even with a draw wire in they cables still bind on the corners. The best way to put conduit in is to use spring benders and form and the bends to suit.

webwat

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#926434 3-Nov-2013 02:21

chevrolux:
DarthKermit:
chevrolux: My thoughts towards doing it yourself is that if you are asking the question on a forum then I am going to give an answer that is the hardest to screw up. It is extremely difficult to run a network cable incorrectly whereas conduit is much easier to screw up. Joe Bloggs will go to the electrical store and see all the cool bends, junctions elbows etc that are available for conduit and create a conduit path with sharp 90 degree bends. This is just going to cause so so many issues when the installers come to do the job. They rely on using a rod to draw the fibre through the duct. If a lot of elbows are used it makes it either extremely hard or just impossible. If you want to run a duct it needs to be done properly and, quite honestly, if you need to ask how to do this you shouldn't do it yourself. I feel I am 'qualified' to say this because I have been on the receiving end of Joe Bloggs' conduit installs. Quite often it ended with me saying, sorry... I am cutting a whole in your GIB. So to summarise, run a copper cable to where the ETP will be. Install power outlet. Done.

Is that generally because home DIYers don't use sweep bends?

Yep exactly. Or they use flexi conduit which is just as unhelpful as a tight 90*. Even with a draw wire in they cables still bind on the corners. The best way to put conduit in is to use spring benders and form and the bends to suit.

think i need one of those spring benders.....

The conduit also needs to avoid too many sweeping bends because every bend adds friction that adds up enough to prevent the cable being pulled in. 1 or 2 bends max depending on length of conduit. Just run the cable in the ceiling/wall framing, but careful not to kink the cable. And don't staple it unless you don't mind degrading the cable (especially the link to the ONT or entry point).

Time to find a new industry!

floydie

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#1011510 23-Mar-2014 21:27

well this has got a bit off topic...as I said i am industrial sparky so bending up some 20mm conduit with a spring is easy. i just need to know whether the green conduit can go straight to my media cupboard where i can put the ONT in there also along with the router/switch.

the "Normal" roadside corner of the garage is diagonally opposite the 6mX7.2m internal garage and i dont want any shelving in that corner due to vehicle access reasons.

Sideface

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#1011513 23-Mar-2014 21:50

timmmay: ... If your alarm runs over UFB then you'll want a UPS that will power the network equipment for a week ...

I have never heard of a UPS that will run for a week, even under low load. Can you give me an example of a UPS that will run this long? I want one

Sideface

InstallerUFB

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#1011514 23-Mar-2014 21:51

floydie: well this has got a bit off topic...as I said i am industrial sparky so bending up some 20mm conduit with a spring is easy. i just need to know whether the green conduit can go straight to my media cupboard where i can put the ONT in there also along with the router/switch.

the "Normal" roadside corner of the garage is diagonally opposite the 6mX7.2m internal garage and i dont want any shelving in that corner due to vehicle access reasons.

Hi floydie - are you asking if the green conduit, that is buried from the property edge, can be continued straight through to the media cupboard?

In a single dwelling residentual situation - No.

The current requirements are for the green conduit to stop below ground and white conduit extended up externaly so a FTB (Fibre Termination Box)/ETP can be installed - from there a conduit can be run throught to your media cupboard - See http://www.chorus.co.nz/file/18484/minimum_communication_cabling_requirements.pdf

The FTB is used to transition from external to internaly suitable cable, usualy in the form of compersite/hybrid cable (copper & fibre)

The FTB and additional conduiting to align the green and your 'internal' conduiting will be installed by the UFB install team/s

floydie

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#1011534 23-Mar-2014 22:45

ok so for my setup all i have to do is run a conduit in the wall of the garage down to the outside ETP point with 3 cat5e cables in it that run back to my media cupboard/star point/home distributor or whatever you want to call it on the diagonally opposite corner??

so do i still need power to be available for the ETP when fiber is installed or will the fiber run right through the ETP and up the wall conduit in place of the 3x cat5e over to my media cupboard/star point/distributor box?

perhaps i should run a conduit under the slab from the ETP over to the star point?

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