led driver - no ground connector

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hangon

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#171263 11-Apr-2015 12:55

non dimmable driver for a led downlight

driver has no ground connector, and ground not shown in diagram. the driver case is fully isolated.

where should the ground wire in the cable go? put in a connector like this and leave it out? thanks.

http://www.bunnings.co.nz/deta-screw-connectors-40a-8pk-_p00310429

p.s. a spiky is coming..

p.s. all light fittings on separate circuit from power. other fittings who had ground connectors which doesn't really do/connect anything, just a place holder in the connector block.

DarthKermit

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#1281061 11-Apr-2015 12:57

As it says in that picture "driver must be installed by a qualified electrician". Get him to sort that detail out, that's his job.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

hangon

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#1281145 11-Apr-2015 16:18

"a spiky is coming" but I won't be home to ask questions.

a bit of know how wouldn't hurt? I understand double insulated and non grounded appliances don't need ground wire connected, but do wonder the proper way to handle said ground wire - which doesn't seem to be connecting to anything from a like-for-like light fitting I replaced.

I guess Darwin frowns upon RCD quite often.

DarthKermit

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#1281159 11-Apr-2015 16:59

What is a spiky?

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

hangon

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#1281160 11-Apr-2015 17:08

sparky my bad... no wonder he hasn't come yet.

StGabriel

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#1281162 11-Apr-2015 17:22

DarthKermit: What is a spiky?

That would be a punk sparky wearing a "god save the queen" shirt and with a safety pin through their nose.

1eStar

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#1281204 11-Apr-2015 19:38

hangon: "a spiky is coming"
I guess Darwin frowns upon RCD quite often.

Incidentally a RCD doesn't need earth to operate. But that is outside the scope of this discussion.

Niel

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#1281209 11-Apr-2015 19:58

If the driver has a double insulated symbol (a square within a square) then it is (supposedly) certified as being insulated sufficiently and an earth connection would have no effect as you can't get a leakage path from mains via the low voltage output to earth.

Typically if a fitting has a metal housing and has mains in it, then the metal needs to be earth. Modern LED fittings with an external driver, even if the fitting is metal, would not need an earth wire if the driver is double insulated. Older wiring rules however allowed metal light fittings to be wired without an earth wire (or at least that is how it was in our original-condition 1960's house).

I am not an electrician, but I am an electronic engineer who designs products according to standards so can comment from a product design point of view.

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richms

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#1281240 11-Apr-2015 21:40

When mine were done by a sparky, the TPS jacket was stripped back some way, the earths were bent back 180 degrees and twisted , the live and neutrals went into the transformer, and the clamp just clamped on the live and neutrals, there was tape applied around both white TPS jackets and covering the twisting of the earths. No terminal was put on the earths.

I thought the exposed central conductors and twisted earths were a bit crap (I would use other words here but have been told off in the past on another forum) but apparently its the best they can do because the standards don't mandate things have large enough terminal blocks or a clamping arrangement that is good enough to clamp the sheath of 2 pieces of 1.5mm 2C+E cable, letalone the 3 that some lights had.

Richard rich.ms

JaseNZ

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#1281254 11-Apr-2015 21:58

StGabriel:

That would be a punk sparky wearing a "god save the queen" shirt and with a safety pin through their nose.

You mean a Chorus installer

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

Bung

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#1281318 12-Apr-2015 09:22

richms: When mine were done by a sparky, the TPS jacket was stripped back some way, the earths were bent back 180 degrees and twisted , the live and neutrals went into the transformer, and the clamp just clamped on the live and neutrals, there was tape applied around both white TPS jackets and covering the twisting of the earths. No terminal was put on the earths.

I thought the exposed central conductors and twisted earths were a bit crap (I would use other words here but have been told off in the past on another forum) but apparently its the best they can do because the standards don't mandate things have large enough terminal blocks or a clamping arrangement that is good enough to clamp the sheath of 2 pieces of 1.5mm 2C+E cable, letalone the 3 that some lights had.

Maybe the choice of transformer means that additional junction boxes are needed to comply. The Standard does require that the earth appears at each lighting point in case it is required by a change in fitting. This means that leaving earths unterminated at intermediate points doesn't comply.

CYaBro

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#1281350 12-Apr-2015 10:32

We've had two different registered sparkys do different led fittings in our place and neither of them attached the earth to the drivers. Even though the drivers we have do have an earth connector on them.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

freitasm

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#1281366 12-Apr-2015 11:39

Removed a reply with incorrect information as reported.

hangon

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#1281760 13-Apr-2015 08:56

Maybe the choice of transformer means that additional junction boxes are needed to comply. The Standard does require that the earth appears at each lighting point in case it is required by a change in fitting. This means that leaving earths unterminated at intermediate points doesn't comply.

My case was about a single switch controlling a single light fitting. My understanding is that for multiple fittings the ground connection needs to be available at each point in case a replacement needs to be earthed.

Thanks, particularly richms and CYaBro for sharing your experiences. I called upon a new sparky I'd be interested in seeing how he handles details like this (and whether he'd go the extra mile get the insulation snug and fit now that is an IC rated, and get the driver above insulation). I've seen the tape before, not convinced but wasn't really bothered.

hangon

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Ultimate Geek

#1282373 13-Apr-2015 17:51

Thanks StGabriel for the link on page 22
If no earth terminal on light fitting, place earth wire in a floating insulated connector behind fitting.

more reading under section 5, and general electrical safety tips around home in appendix b.

sparky says either tape or connector would be fine...