Advice on LED backlit shelving project, including RGBW strip lights

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jonathan18

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#288688 17-Jul-2021 07:13

I’m looking to convert a fugly ‘70s-style ‘nook’ with shelving in our dining room into a back-lit display for art glass etc - kinda like this, but a lot less museum-like!:

The space is (at a guess) about 2.4 x 1.3 x 0.4m. My plans are to run LED strip lighting around the side walls of the space at the very rear, sitting behind wooden beading with a profile of about 10x10mm; an opaque white acrylic sheet (looks like 3mm thick will do it) covering the whole of the rear of the space will be screwed into that same beading (this way the individual LEDs won’t show and the acrylic has a frame to which it can be fixed). Shelving would then attach to the side walls.

Before I start ordering what i need, there are a few questions I have that I hoped people may be able to help with.

A couple of questions on the design itself:

* Will the lights, being located around the perimeter of the space, provide a relatively even light across the full backing of the space? (I don’t want to have to run additional strips of LED across the width of the space, as that means shelving would have to permanently placed in front of them.)

* The back of the space is currently a natural wood colour - would I be best to have that in white so as to maximise the whiteness of the wall? If so, other than painting it, what are my best options to achieve this? My thoughts were to use a thin solid white acrylic sheet at the very rear.

And in terms of the LED strip lights:

* Has anyone got recommendations of decent quality Google-controllable RGBW or LED strip lights, ie ones that include white LEDs? (For light quality purposes I think it’s best to avoid ‘white’ light being generated by RGBs.) This is the kind of thing I’m thinking of, but I’m finding it hard to find recommendations for quality RGBW models, especially ones of the length I need.

* Length-wise, I’m looking at needing about 8m of LEDs; what’s the safest length I can run without an obvious drop-off in brightness over the length (that will result in uneven lighting)? I’ve seen some that are 10m single strips, but wondered if it was safer to go with those that provide 2x 5m off the same controller (and cut off as needed).

Thanks for any advice!

jonathan18

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#2746974 20-Jul-2021 09:52

I have spotted a 10m Arlec strip light with cool white, warm white and RGB LEDs on it at Bunnings, so clearly they’re available; I still have concerns, though, there’d be a voltage drop over that length, meaning an unevenness to brightness which isn’t ideal. (Assuming it’s a single 10m not 2x 5m).

Still keen on advice on any of the questions above!

chevrolux

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#2746978 20-Jul-2021 10:03

I've had really good success with the RGBW strips from Bunnings - i forget the brand, but they are $30-$40 for 2m. Have warm white LED's on them and are 24V.

I didn't buy their controller though, and instead run them via my own power supply and Shelly RBGW2 module. That could be used with Google Assistant.

If you don't mind the price, Phillips Hue is probably the simplest option.

Fred99

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#2747057 20-Jul-2021 10:55

jonathan18:

I have spotted a 10m Arlec strip light with cool white, warm white and RGB LEDs on it at Bunnings, so clearly they’re available; I still have concerns, though, there’d be a voltage drop over that length, meaning an unevenness to brightness which isn’t ideal. (Assuming it’s a single 10m not 2x 5m).

Still keen on advice on any of the questions above!

I don't think so from the 12v and 24v ones I've installed, luminance seems even over a 10m length. I guess each section (marked by scissor cut lines) on the strip has it's own driver circuits, so (within reason) practical voltage drop has no significant effect.

jonathan18

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#2747058 20-Jul-2021 10:55

Thanks, @chevrolux - could well be the same brand but the 2m version, perhaps? (This is 2m for $42: https://www.bunnings.co.nz/arlec-2m-white-and-colour-changing-grid-connect-smart-led-strip-light-with-remote_p0208822).

The problem with Hue is not just the cost (which is a factor, especially since I don’t have a bridge already) but the length - I’ve not seen any of their indoor strip lights longer than 2m, and I’m needing about 8m. Putting four 2m ones together would certainly be damn costly, even if it can be done.

jonathan18

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#2747059 20-Jul-2021 10:57

Fred99:
jonathan18:

I have spotted a 10m Arlec strip light with cool white, warm white and RGB LEDs on it at Bunnings, so clearly they’re available; I still have concerns, though, there’d be a voltage drop over that length, meaning an unevenness to brightness which isn’t ideal. (Assuming it’s a single 10m not 2x 5m).

Still keen on advice on any of the questions above!

I don't think so from the 12v and 24v ones I've installed, luminance seems even over a 10m length. I guess each section (marked by scissor cut lines) on the strip has it's own driver circuits, so (within reason) practical voltage drop has no significant effect.

Thanks, that’s great to know.

My fear was buying something like the long bud lights we have, which are way dimmer by the end of the length! But they’re a much simpler product, of course; just wanted to be sure.

richms

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#2747094 20-Jul-2021 12:33

The dimming over the strip is a problem with cheap strips with thin copper. Just add more power feeds to combat that.

Go 24v if using analog strips to halve the voltage drop.

You can get white vinyl like stuff to cover the wood to make it more reflective. Will still get hotspotting at the sides however.

Richard rich.ms

jonathan18

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#2747315 20-Jul-2021 19:05

Looking at the photos of the packaging of the 10m Arlec RGBWW strips from Bunnings shows they’re 24v; at this stage this is definitely the most suitable model I’ve found.

@richms: what sort of stores stock the vinyl product you’re thinking of? Is it something like this? https://vinylhome.co.nz/collections/sticky-back-plastic/products/white-matte-90cm-x-2-1m

I’m ideally looking for something that can be relatively easily removed should a future owner not be keen on what I do; that’s why I was thinking a thin sheet of acrylic like the solid white acrylic on this page (and directly below that is an opaque acrylic like the one I’m looking at getting for sitting in front of the lights): https://www.modernplastics.co.nz/products/acrylic/

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Fred99

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#2747322 20-Jul-2021 19:50

For acrylic sheet - Cebelio / BNT plastics.

They'll cut to size for you, but you might be needing enough so it's cheaper to just buy a full sheet and cut it yourself.

For channel for the led strips with diffuser, Ulrich Aluminium. Cheaper than buying cut lengths retail.

Some of the cheap strip doesn't have many LEDs , so if it's close to the surface you're illuminating, then it surely will be unevenly lit - but even with high density led strip (most of which seems to be 24V) a diffuser might still be needed.

The LEDLUX strip sold by Lighting Direct seems pretty good - photo below:

Big proviso though - there's 5 and 10 watt/metre grades, the 10w/m grade is pretty bright, 5w/m may be too bright for your purpose. Below photo of about 1500mm (IIRC) of 10 w/m strip mounted in a channel with diffuser. The room was well lit with natural light. The bench area is very well illuminated IMO. Even with that tightly spaced LED strip the diffuser was essential or the back wall would have been all stripes. Also need to optimise distance from the back wall. Brand new and fairly high end fitout of a granny-flat (apart from dumb gap at RH end of cupboards - joiners these days LOL - he measured one sheet of gib too small) if the strip was set back any further, the back wall looked terrible - like a close-up of the moon. That's why I think acrylic sheet may be your best bet.

Fred99

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#2747327 20-Jul-2021 20:15

For an example of uneven light from LED spacing, I've run 12v for garden and lighting on external decks. I built a gate in an entranceway cut through a >2m high hedge, ran 12v cable, put a couple of LED strips in the top of the entrance framing. This is 12v LED strip with typical spacing mounted in a channel with a diffuser. Doesn't matter 'cause nobody can see the effect unless you duck down and look up. The timber below is lit from the second LED strip about 250mm away.

jonathan18

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#2747458 21-Jul-2021 08:47

Thanks, @Fred99 - that's really useful advice to help avoid pitfalls that I'd not have known otherwise. I've mocked up a diagram to see if I understand what you're suggesting (hopefully it makes sense!) - to confirm, you advise putting the lights in an aluminium channel with its own diffuse (like this)? (Does Ulrich sell such a channel with a diffuser or does that part need to be purchased separately from elsewhere?)

Do you think I need a further gap between the channel with the lights and the front opaque acrylic (as per the second diagram) to further diffuse the lighting? While I can see that would make it easier to attach the acrylic, my concern is it'll also create a larger shadow. If not (ie, go with diagram one), do you think the acrylic could be screwed directly into the aluminium channel?

As luck will have it, a family member works for a plastics company in my home town, so it looks like I should be able to get the acrylic at mate's rates, which is great.

Fred99

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#2747480 21-Jul-2021 09:19

Ulrich sell channel with diffuser. You'll have to check lengths available,

Best to set something up as an experiment I think - just a short length of channel with LED, work out what distance from the white sheet works best. For the kitchen alcove in the photo, back wall was painted (presumably aqualine) gib. It looked flawless, but with the led strip flush against the wall, every brush/roller mark in the paint was visible, where it was stopped looked like mountains.

As an alternative to acrylic sheet, HPL ply might be easier to work with. That's ply with a laminated melamine surface, often used for kitchen joinery etc these days. Usually has a low sheen / matt surface - tough and scratch resistant.