suddenly non GIB boards are approved for use

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Batman

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#298921 27-Jul-2022 19:28

so we have had a 95% monopoly by Fletcher's GIB all these time and now suddenly we allow other things to be used

this must be why our cost of building is so expensive

i thought we had anti competitive laws

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/gib-alternatives-can-now-be-used-supply-predicted-to-free-up/7VJ6LCPFR7AA3SJPZNZ7JKCAIA/

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#2947082 27-Jul-2022 19:49

It's all fun and games until you realise that you need to get a new approval for your plans with any change in plasterboard seeing it's considered structural.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

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mattwnz

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#2947130 27-Jul-2022 22:16

I don't quite understand this, as haven't other plasterboards always been able to be used? I recall the house next door to me used elephant board a number of years ago. Plasterboard also isn't always used for bracing elements. However if using plasterboard for bracing, then it has to be approved and calculated for that use. For example when I was looking at another brand, they didn't allow the green aqua type of plasterboard to be used for bracing, yet Gibs equivalent aqua product does allow it to be used for bracing. So different manufacturers of plasterboard don't appear to have the same bracing properties. IMO we could end up with bracing problems in houses if they are just swapped out without considering bracing. EDIT: I see they do have a table, but only a few types look to be able to be used for bracing. So it may not help that may people.

Jase2985

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#2947166 28-Jul-2022 05:41

mattwnz:

I don't quite understand this, as haven't other plasterboards always been able to be used? I recall the house next door to me used elephant board a number of years ago. Plasterboard also isn't always used for bracing elements. However if using plasterboard for bracing, then it has to be approved and calculated for that use. For example when I was looking at another brand, they didn't allow the green aqua type of plasterboard to be used for bracing, yet Gibs equivalent aqua product does allow it to be used for bracing. So different manufacturers of plasterboard don't appear to have the same bracing properties. IMO we could end up with bracing problems in houses if they are just swapped out without considering bracing. EDIT: I see they do have a table, but only a few types look to be able to be used for bracing. So it may not help that may people.

its not that that didnt/dont have the same bracing properties they were just never approved as bracing.

and thats the problem, we rely on the gib board as bracing and as its specified by name on plans thats they they expect to see.

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#2947187 28-Jul-2022 08:43

MadEngineer:

It's all fun and games until you realise that you need to get a new approval for your plans with any change in plasterboard seeing it's considered structural.

Yes and all that involves extra money to be paid to the council for their rubber stamp to change from Gib to something else regardless where it is certified.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#2947220 28-Jul-2022 09:51

old3eyes:

MadEngineer:

It's all fun and games until you realise that you need to get a new approval for your plans with any change in plasterboard seeing it's considered structural.

Yes and all that involves extra money to be paid to the council for their rubber stamp to change from Gib to something else regardless where it is certified.

That's the reason for many things...slightest change requires more permitting and therefore more money. Ludicrous.

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#2947463 28-Jul-2022 15:55

Batman:
so we have had a 95% monopoly by Fletcher's GIB all these time and now suddenly we allow other things to be used

They've always been allowed to be used, they were just effectively invisible because of the Gib monopoly.

surfisup1000

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#2947478 28-Jul-2022 16:21

MadEngineer:

It's all fun and games until you realise that you need to get a new approval for your plans with any change in plasterboard seeing it's considered structural.

Not in my house!

mattwnz

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#2947480 28-Jul-2022 16:23

Jase2985:
mattwnz:

I don't quite understand this, as haven't other plasterboards always been able to be used? I recall the house next door to me used elephant board a number of years ago. Plasterboard also isn't always used for bracing elements. However if using plasterboard for bracing, then it has to be approved and calculated for that use. For example when I was looking at another brand, they didn't allow the green aqua type of plasterboard to be used for bracing, yet Gibs equivalent aqua product does allow it to be used for bracing. So different manufacturers of plasterboard don't appear to have the same bracing properties. IMO we could end up with bracing problems in houses if they are just swapped out without considering bracing. EDIT: I see they do have a table, but only a few types look to be able to be used for bracing. So it may not help that may people.

its not that that didnt/dont have the same bracing properties they were just never approved as bracing.

and thats the problem, we rely on the gib board as bracing and as its specified by name on plans thats they they expect to see.

They need to be scientifically tested to made sure they do actually work and provide adequate bracing strength. GIB also have braceline which is a special strengthened board when extra bracing strength is required . Using GIB for bracing imo is a lot better than what they used to do with diagonal metal straps etc, as it should provide a consistent bracing system as long as the installation instructions are followed. The bracing software also makes it a lot easier to work out and that software works with other materials like ply and fibre cement too. GIBs system was the most comprehensive. Other manufacturers didn’t have the same range of bracing products.

MadEngineer

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#2948330 30-Jul-2022 14:46

old3eyes:

MadEngineer:

It's all fun and games until you realise that you need to get a new approval for your plans with any change in plasterboard seeing it's considered structural.

Yes and all that involves extra money to be paid to the council for their rubber stamp to change from Gib to something else regardless where it is certified.

my point exactly

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

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#2948334 30-Jul-2022 15:01

Hi, I presume a deemed wall that requires bracing need only have a suitable angle brace to achieve the same, so surely any concerns re substituting structural rated Gib with any Gib plus this (if approved by council/architect etc) is good to go?

I understand that it would need a design adjustment, but there are suitable solutions to structural Gib, which I perceive as rubbish anyway. my 2c

Cyril

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#2948351 30-Jul-2022 15:36

cyril7:

Hi, I presume a deemed wall that requires bracing need only have a suitable angle brace to achieve the same, so surely any concerns re substituting structural rated Gib with any Gib plus this (if approved by council/architect etc) is good to go?

I understand that it would need a design adjustment, but there are suitable solutions to structural Gib, which I perceive as rubbish anyway. my 2c

Cyril

I don't think they really use angle braces like that much these days. Each also only works in one direction, as they are for tension, not compression, and I don't know how effective they really are and a lot relies on how well they are fixed and the builders knowledge. I used them on a shed and it was fine, but you also have to cut them into the framing, and it all requires more labour. That was the beauty of the gib system, where it was almost a standard bracing system, as sheet materials are very strong at resisting lateral loads, and the software is relatively easy to use compared to using spreadsheets.

mattwnz

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#2948354 30-Jul-2022 15:42

Jase2985:

its not that that didnt/dont have the same bracing properties they were just never approved as bracing.

and thats the problem, we rely on the gib board as bracing and as its specified by name on plans thats they they expect to see.

It looks like this brand has been approved for bracing since at least 2015 https://elephantplasterboard.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/Manuals-PDF/Elephant_QuickBrace_Systems_-Manual_July_2015.pdf

But maybe there wasn't the supply in NZ

tweake

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#2948355 30-Jul-2022 15:47

mattwnz:

I don't quite understand this, as haven't other plasterboards always been able to be used? I recall the house next door to me used elephant board a number of years ago. Plasterboard also isn't always used for bracing elements. However if using plasterboard for bracing, then it has to be approved and calculated for that use. For example when I was looking at another brand, they didn't allow the green aqua type of plasterboard to be used for bracing, yet Gibs equivalent aqua product does allow it to be used for bracing. So different manufacturers of plasterboard don't appear to have the same bracing properties. IMO we could end up with bracing problems in houses if they are just swapped out without considering bracing. EDIT: I see they do have a table, but only a few types look to be able to be used for bracing. So it may not help that may people.

yes others have been around but they have been very good at making sellers sell gib instead. so then others don't get a foot hold enough to make it worthwhile to get it approved for bracing.

plus gib becomes the standard that gets spec'ed even when bracing is not required so builders must use it. ours homes typically do not use sheathing (unless high wind zone) and tension straps rarely used. its just easier to use gib to do the bracing instead. its extra work to go spec other plaster board.

tweake

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#2948356 30-Jul-2022 15:50

mattwnz:

Jase2985:

its not that that didnt/dont have the same bracing properties they were just never approved as bracing.

and thats the problem, we rely on the gib board as bracing and as its specified by name on plans thats they they expect to see.

It looks like this brand has been approved for bracing since at least 2015 https://elephantplasterboard.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/Manuals-PDF/Elephant_QuickBrace_Systems_-Manual_July_2015.pdf

But maybe there wasn't the supply in NZ

the catch is gib is 95% of the market. that other 5% is made up of several brands selling sweet stuff all.

mattwnz

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#2948358 30-Jul-2022 15:52

This page has a table showing the plasterboard products that can be swapped out. But it is a bit confusing because some of the aqua plaster products don't state if they are suitable for bracing or not. Where Gibs Aqua product can be used for bracing.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/116929/twelve-importers-have-100-containers-plasterboard-their-way-nz-building

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