More Casa de Cowboy bandaids: The stormwater drainage that isn't

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neb

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#299046 5-Aug-2022 21:25

For the impetus for this, see my other post from earlier today. This prompted me to crawl under the deck with a torch (never a fun job because sizeof(space under deck) < sizeof(neb)) to see how bad the damage was. There are three black Novacoil pipes that run up onto parts of the bank that caught some of the flow, except that instead of connecting to the drainage further down as expected they just terminate up against the basement wall. "The drainage is in, who cares where it comes out, that's not my department", says Wernher von Cowboy.

There's two 110mm and a 65mm Novacoil pipes, and at least one of the 110s and the 65 carry water. What I was thinking of doing was getting a 300mm poly sump and jamming them all into that, then taking an 80-100mm PVC pipe out of that (cheaper than Novacoil/Drainaway/etc because there seems to be a minimum length of 15m, and finding unpunched pipe from any non-rural suppliers seems to be impossible) and down past the side of the house to where it's taken up by other drainage down there. Having said that Novacoil/Drainaway would be a lot easier to route than rigid PVC...

Since access to the area is an absolute pain (I have no idea yet how I'll dig in the sump and the first metre or so of pipe coming out of it) I thought I'd get a sanity-check here, that no-one can see a potential problem with this. In particular, since the shallower sumps all have dead flat sides, it's not obvious how you attach a rigid outlet pipe to it (as opposed to corrugated, just notch it, compress it, and slide it in), I'm guessing silicone+screw a flange onto it and then PVC weld the pipe to that?

neb

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#2951174 5-Aug-2022 22:22

An additional comment on that, another alternative I'd considered is using Y-joiners but they're insanely expensive compared to the sump box. The advantage is that they're a lot less mucking around and don't have the mosquito problems that the sump will invariably have come summer.

nutbugs

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#2951208 6-Aug-2022 08:56

I would get some novaflow y joints (you might need a 65 to 110 adapter) and run a piece of nova flow.
Factor in the time it will take to try and dig a sump in under the deck.
Using nova flow will be so much easier!

neb

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#2951252 6-Aug-2022 11:17

nutbugs: I would get some novaflow y joints (you might need a 65 to 110 adapter) and run a piece of nova flow. Factor in the time it will take to try and dig a sump in under the deck. Using nova flow will be so much easier!

The problem then is that you become subject to the Marley monopoly rort. 110mm Y joiner, Bunnings Australia, $12. 110mm Y joiner, Bunnings NZ, $80.

Eight times the price just because it says Marley on it. The drainage coil is the same, for that at least there's non-Marley providers at rural farm-supply stores at one fifth the price Marley charge for the same thing, but for the joiners only Marley seem to supply them, and since they're a monopoly they can charge whatever they like.

Alongside Gib, Marley is another company abusing its monopoly position that the gummint needs to look into...

mdf

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#2951270 6-Aug-2022 12:07

Ugh, that sucks.

Do you have a friendly tradie who will let you use their account? I was shocked - shocked - at the level of trade discount you can get on Marley stuff.

neb

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#2951280 6-Aug-2022 12:37

Any idea how much the discount would be? I know one or two guys I could ask but it'd be a bit of a hassle, and I'm down to only needing one Marley-branded Y-joiner at $65 at the farm supply store (vs. $80 at M10/Bunnings, and $10 anywhere where Marley doesn't make them) so if it's only a $10 saving I'll bite the bullet.

Annoyingly, you can't get 65 -> 110 joiners so I'll have to hole saw into the 110, cut a slot into the 65, push it in, and silicone the edges. Mind you since Marley would probably charge $500 for such a thing it's probably not a bad deal.

Edited to add: Just called Farm Source, no hidden catches, it's one fifth the price of exactly the same thing when it says "Marley" on it. Now I need to figure out how to move a 30m coil of the stuff...

deadlyllama

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#2951297 6-Aug-2022 12:48

neb: "The drainage is in, who cares where it comes out, that's not my department", says Wernher von Cowboy.

I appreciate your Tom Lehrer reference.

neb

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#2951804 7-Aug-2022 19:00

Went to Bunnings today to see how big a coil of 30m of 110mm pipe is and at the same time had a look at what else was available in that size. Turns out that Reln draincoil, which is sold as 100mm, seems to be perfectly compatible with Marley 110mm, since Marley's overpriced 110mm pipe fits perfectly into the Reln 100mm junction. Here's the two next two each other:

See if you can guess which is which. One is $16, the other is $80, and apart from the slight stylistic differences and Y vs. T junction they're the same thing.

Marley is an absolute ripoff. Instead of a $459 coil of pipe and an $80 junction I'm getting exactly the same thing without the hideously expensive name "Marley" on it for $131 for the pipe and $16 for the junction.

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neb

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#2952209 8-Aug-2022 17:23

Continuing the ongoing series of how to sidestep the Marley rort, if you want to join two different-sized pieces of drain coil you can get a Marley reducing joiner for $128.81. One hundred and twenty-eight dollars.

Or you can get a $6.41 Reln end cap and put a hole saw of the appropriate size into it:

Let's see, $6 non-Marley, $128 Marley. Decisions, decisions...

richms

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#2952213 8-Aug-2022 17:33

Where is this farm supply place compared to bunnings?

Richard rich.ms

neb

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#2952216 8-Aug-2022 17:44

richms:
Where is this farm supply place compared to bunnings?

The Reln stuff is from Bunnings, it's the pipe itself that's from not-Bunnings since Bunnings/M10 only carry Marley. The place is NZ Farm Source in Albany, just across from the library, and it's this stuff.

If you want to go halves on it let me know, since I don't need anywhere near 30m of it.

itxtme

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#2952327 9-Aug-2022 09:11

neb: See if you can guess which is which. One is $16, the other is $80, and apart from the slight stylistic differences and Y vs. T junction they're the same thing. Marley is an absolute ripoff. Instead of a $459 coil of pipe and an $80 junction I'm getting exactly the same thing without the hideously expensive name "Marley" on it for $131 for the pipe and $16 for the junction.

Yep they are shockers, same with electrical conduit

Mitre10 (Marley) $27.85

Bunnings (Deta) $6.95

Dont even get me started on pressure/waste pipe and fixtures!!

JayADee

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#2952464 9-Aug-2022 13:08

Don't buy the Reln stretch stuff from Bunnings for above ground, it splits. I used some to transport down pipe water a bit further away from buildings to the lawn— just slipped it on over the end of the 80mm down pipe) or from the end of a down pipe to a catch basin in 5 locations. I ended up replacing some of it with the heavy duty drainflo stuff which I bought by the metre from a plumbing shop. It might be ok if completely undisturbed… the bit in the chicken run seems ok. I'll probably replace the rest at some stage.

edit: also I don’t care what they claim, it feels too light duty to bury in any kind of trafficked area. I went for solid pvc 80mm pipe (bought from the local drain layer in one long piece by the metre) to drain water from one of my catch basins to open air down slope. I'd rather not ever have to dig it up ever again!

The price on a Marley 95 degree elbow bend has almost doubled since the last time I bought one. They used to cost $5. Glad I got my spouting redone a few years back, wouldn’t want to be doing it now!

neb

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#2952653 9-Aug-2022 17:47

Yeah, it didn't look like it would hold up to much. For those who aren't familiar with it, it's this stuff:

It comes in a compact, lightweight bundle that expands out to an 8m length, but what it gains in flexibility it loses in ridigity. In particular in this case the solid rings are pretty tough but the flexible joining sections don't look like they'd stand up to much. For example buried in scoria any weight on it, like someone walking over it, looks like it'd punch through the sides. Even without sharp edges next to it, if you stretch it out completely without a few periodic unstretched segments, putting pressure on one area looks like it could cause a tear.

Having said that, I'm planning on getting one of the 65mm unpunched lots because it's about the same cost as a Marley 65mm joiner (yup, 7 metres of Reln pipe is only a bit more expensive than a 15cm joiner that says Marley on it) to run a 65mm punched coil into the 110mm unpunched. It's above ground and under a deck, so no exposure to either foot traffic or solar UV.

And that leads to a question, what happens when punched drainage coil goes above ground? Does it essentially act like a soaker hose and you lose all the water flowing through it, so you need to go to unpunched the minute it goes above ground? The existing stuff has 1-2m of punched 110 and 65mm above ground (sticking out of a bank), do I need to cut it back to the bank and join unpunched to it at that point?