Whole House Water Filtration

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networkn

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#304320 23-Apr-2023 13:02

At the home show, we came across a company doing under bench, per tap, and then whole house water filtration. We already have an underbench system in our kitchen, but it's so SLOW!

It doesn't seem too bad of a deal to get a whole house filtration system done. Show special $1200 for the 2-filter system. About $500 of that is a one-off purchase upgrade magnetic something that apparently removes the bulk of the stuff that causes 'hard' water (and converts it to 'soft' water) , which is a problem in our house, our shower glass are constantly needing cleaning despite having Diamond Fusion.

Does anyone here have experience and think it's worthwhile? There is a plumber to be involved so I am guessing $300-500 for installation.

They did mention a 3-5% water pressure difference which can increase up to 10% by the time the filters need replacing annually, which costs about $200 total. We like our water pressure, esp in the shower. I am a little worried he is underplaying how much pressure we could lose.

My other concern is just around filters, how interchangeable they are with other brands of filtration systems, I don't want to implement a system and then find they go out of business and our system is useless etc.

Comments or caveats are welcome.

hsvhel

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#3067350 23-Apr-2023 13:25

If you go with it, have the plumber install a valved bypass.
We didn’t have one and a filter base cracked over Christmas….
Learned that one the hard way

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#3067351 23-Apr-2023 13:31

You should look into magnetic water softeners. The early results of a search here say unproven woo woo BS that doesn't work.

robjg63

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#3067355 23-Apr-2023 13:39

networkn:

It doesn't seem too bad of a deal to get a whole house filtration system done. Show special $1200 for the 2-filter system. About $500 of that is a one-off purchase upgrade magnetic something that apparently removes the bulk of the stuff that causes 'hard' water (and converts it to 'soft' water) , which is a problem in our house, our shower glass are constantly needing cleaning despite having Diamond Fusion.

As a rule, NZ does not have 'hard' water with lots of calcium or salts in it.

I dont know where you live, but why do you think you have hard water?

Does your electric jug suffer from calcium build ups - especially around the element?

Do you use liquid body wash or bars of soap in your shower?

While it is too late for our shower glass, we switched to body wash a few years ago - dramatic difference.

Bars of soap contain calcium and leave soap scum/calcium build up on surfaces.

Switch to liquid soap/body wash which is just a mild detergent without calcium and minerals.

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Jase2985

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#3067365 23-Apr-2023 14:05

use a squeegie on the shower glass and then it doesnt have the chance to create water spots.

NZ/Auckland doesnt really have hard water like the US does so it will make little difference to this.

I honestly dont see the point in whole house systems, your flushing your toilets, doing your washing, watering your gardens with the filtered water, none of this cares.

if you still want filtered water for drinking get a water filter that goers inline with the kitchen faucet like this one: https://www.nzfilterwarehouse.com/product/619041

way cheaper, in both initial outlay and maintenance costs.

tweake

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#3067375 23-Apr-2023 14:36

networkn:

At the home show, we came across a company doing under bench, per tap, and then whole house water filtration. We already have an underbench system in our kitchen, but it's so SLOW!

It doesn't seem too bad of a deal to get a whole house filtration system done. Show special $1200 for the 2-filter system. About $500 of that is a one-off purchase upgrade magnetic something that apparently removes the bulk of the stuff that causes 'hard' water (and converts it to 'soft' water) , which is a problem in our house, our shower glass are constantly needing cleaning despite having Diamond Fusion.

Does anyone here have experience and think it's worthwhile? There is a plumber to be involved so I am guessing $300-500 for installation.

They did mention a 3-5% water pressure difference which can increase up to 10% by the time the filters need replacing annually, which costs about $200 total. We like our water pressure, esp in the shower. I am a little worried he is underplaying how much pressure we could lose.

My other concern is just around filters, how interchangeable they are with other brands of filtration systems, I don't want to implement a system and then find they go out of business and our system is useless etc.

Comments or caveats are welcome.

anyone who sells magnetic filters you should avoid.

water pressure, it depends on if your mains pressure or not. tho even if your tank water if you have a decent pump it will be fine. the pressure drop is barley noticeable.

dual filters, it depends on what filters your using. you can run just one filter just fine. depends on if your tank water or town supply. or if you want carbon filter to remove chlorine. just make sure its using standard sized filters, which most but not all do. then its a case of getting the right sized filters to suit your needs.

the primarily filter is there to help extend the life of the main fine filter.

if piping is accessible you can plumb it up so toilet water doesn't go through the filter. that just extends the filter a bit longer.

muppet

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#3067391 23-Apr-2023 15:58

We bought one of these a few years ago. Because it's got UV we also need a sparkie to wire up a point outside where it plugs in. All up with plumber costs etc it set us back about $3.5k.

We're on bore water, the bore fills up a tank and the tank has a pump attached to it. I was quite worried about a pressure drop when we had it installed, but pressure was the same as it was prior to the install (we have a pretty grunty pump) The only thing we've noticed is it takes longer for the pump to "kick it" (it sees line pressure drop when a tap is opened and the filter system makes it take longer to notice the pressure drop)

The biggest downside is the ongoing yearly cost of replacing the UV bulb and the two filters, which sets us back $~350 a year (I have a way to get them at trade prices, otherwise it'd be more like $600 for all 3 things, the UV bulbs are expensive)

Puretec, the two times I've had to talk to them about issues etc have been outstanding, their customer support is amazing. They're a huge brand so I'm not worried about them going out of business anytime soon.

Hope this helps,

Le Muppo.

tweake

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#3067393 23-Apr-2023 16:20

muppet:

We bought one of these a few years ago. Because it's got UV we also need a sparkie to wire up a point outside where it plugs in. All up with plumber costs etc it set us back about $3.5k.

We're on bore water, the bore fills up a tank and the tank has a pump attached to it. I was quite worried about a pressure drop when we had it installed, but pressure was the same as it was prior to the install (we have a pretty grunty pump) The only thing we've noticed is it takes longer for the pump to "kick it" (it sees line pressure drop when a tap is opened and the filter system makes it take longer to notice the pressure drop)

The biggest downside is the ongoing yearly cost of replacing the UV bulb and the two filters, which sets us back $~350 a year (I have a way to get them at trade prices, otherwise it'd be more like $600 for all 3 things, the UV bulbs are expensive)

Puretec, the two times I've had to talk to them about issues etc have been outstanding, their customer support is amazing. They're a huge brand so I'm not worried about them going out of business anytime soon.

Hope this helps,

Le Muppo.

that setup is kinda over kill.

20" filters are good if you have really high flow taps. if you have normal taps then 10" filters are cheaper and easier to fit. duals a good on tank water, waste of time on bore water as you shouldn't be getting much big stuff, with the exception of if you run a carbon filter. a carbon filter is also a 5 mic filter so you can get away with just a single on fairly clean water.

uv bulbs, you can get away with not replacing the bulbs for years. yes the uv degrades with use but still works well for a long time, especially if your uv unit is bigger then your flow rate. the unit mentioned looks to be a high flow setup which is more than what you need on a typical house.

for a regular house you could use a setup about half the size.

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networkn

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#3067408 23-Apr-2023 17:29

tweake:

anyone who sells magnetic filters you should avoid.

water pressure, it depends on if your mains pressure or not. tho even if your tank water if you have a decent pump it will be fine. the pressure drop is barley noticeable.

dual filters, it depends on what filters your using. you can run just one filter just fine. depends on if your tank water or town supply. or if you want carbon filter to remove chlorine. just make sure its using standard sized filters, which most but not all do. then its a case of getting the right sized filters to suit your needs.

the primarily filter is there to help extend the life of the main fine filter.

if piping is accessible you can plumb it up so toilet water doesn't go through the filter. that just extends the filter a bit longer.

Hi. Thanks for that. Appreciate the advice.

mattwnz

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#3067415 23-Apr-2023 18:33

I think there were cheap under bench kits which have a very narrow hose attached, which had a very slow flow. But we have an underbench filter attached to the mains, and it has the identical flow to a normal cold tap.

mattwnz

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#3067416 23-Apr-2023 18:35

muppet:

We bought one of these a few years ago. Because it's got UV we also need a sparkie to wire up a point outside where it plugs in. All up with plumber costs etc it set us back about $3.5k.

We're on bore water, the bore fills up a tank and the tank has a pump attached to it. I was quite worried about a pressure drop when we had it installed, but pressure was the same as it was prior to the install (we have a pretty grunty pump) The only thing we've noticed is it takes longer for the pump to "kick it" (it sees line pressure drop when a tap is opened and the filter system makes it take longer to notice the pressure drop)

The biggest downside is the ongoing yearly cost of replacing the UV bulb and the two filters, which sets us back $~350 a year (I have a way to get them at trade prices, otherwise it'd be more like $600 for all 3 things, the UV bulbs are expensive)

Puretec, the two times I've had to talk to them about issues etc have been outstanding, their customer support is amazing. They're a huge brand so I'm not worried about them going out of business anytime soon.

Hope this helps,

Le Muppo.

You can purchase and install those components separately, rather than having a combined system. My parents had filters and a big UV tube things similar to that for tank water, and I think it was a lot cheaper than that integrated system. They have to come and change the UV tube every so often

tweake

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#3067420 23-Apr-2023 19:00

mattwnz:

You can purchase and install those components separately, rather than having a combined system. My parents had filters and a big UV tube things similar to that for tank water, and I think it was a lot cheaper than that integrated system. They have to come and change the UV tube every so often

all components are available separately. mix and match to what ever you need. you might want to install the uv in a more sheltered location.

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#3067422 23-Apr-2023 19:44

It sounds like you are on reticulated water supplies which, if true, means that (at least in most parts of the country, maybe not all) you have very little need to filter the water. Getting most off-the-shelf whole house systems means you are getting a ~20 micron plus a ~1-5 micron filter inline which will filter sediment and not much else - unless you have old/bad pipework in your neighbourhood/town you're probably not actually filtering much out. Purification on the other hand can be useful: you might very well want an activated carbon filter to remove chlorine or other odour/taste from your water. This often comes as an add-on to regular filtration, for example we bought a 5-stage under-bench filter where one stage was activated carbon. But simple sediment filtration will not do that.

Otoh, if you are collecting rainwater then you very much want both filtration down to (ideally) 1 micron and preferably also UV sterilisation and the carbon filters (if you get them) are less about taste and more about heavy metal removal (KDF filters). We have a system that we got installed (about $1800 all up) for tank water sediment removal and UV sterilisation. Just be sure you know what the costs are for filter/bulb replacement, as it can be hundreds per year. If I'd done my homework I would have gone for a different UV system as the bulbs for mine are among the most expensive in the country and incompatible with other brand bulbs. As another commenter mentioned, you can stretch them out but efficacy diminishes over time.

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#3067628 24-Apr-2023 13:41

tweake:

that setup is kinda over kill.

20" filters are good if you have really high flow taps. if you have normal taps then 10" filters are cheaper and easier to fit. duals a good on tank water, waste of time on bore water as you shouldn't be getting much big stuff, with the exception of if you run a carbon filter. a carbon filter is also a 5 mic filter so you can get away with just a single on fairly clean water.

uv bulbs, you can get away with not replacing the bulbs for years. yes the uv degrades with use but still works well for a long time, especially if your uv unit is bigger then your flow rate. the unit mentioned looks to be a high flow setup which is more than what you need on a typical house.

for a regular house you could use a setup about half the size.

I spoke to 3 different plumbers who all suggested the bigger system for our double story house - thus why we went with it.

Our bore has had a number of issues where it's brought matter into the house blocking smaller filters fitted to things like the hot water, other taps etc. We've also had ants get into the water tank (nothing like a delicious glass of crisp water + ant bits, I can promise you). The filter system also removes a lot of the iron that slowly used to stain things brown - not a problem we have anymore.

Agree with the UV bulb thing, I've only just replaced it for the first time in the two years we've had the system. From what I've read they loose about 50% effectivness over 12 months. After replacing the UV lamp I've noticed the water runs warm again if it hasn't been used in a few hours, something it'd stopped doing with the old lamp. I also gave the crystal sheath a good clean which no doubt helps a lot with the UV effectiveness.

We've had the bore water tested a number of times and the last time it came back with some (very low) levels of bacteria etc. So the filter/UV system was put in to ensure we didn't have a "Havelock North" at our place.

The previous owners lived here 25+ years with no tank, pump, filters and they never had an issue, so from that point of view it's certainly overkill.

tweake

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#3067637 24-Apr-2023 14:11

muppet:

I spoke to 3 different plumbers who all suggested the bigger system for our double story house - thus why we went with it.

Agree with the UV bulb thing, I've only just replaced it for the first time in the two years we've had the system. From what I've read they loose about 50% effectivness over 12 months. After replacing the UV lamp I've noticed the water runs warm again if it hasn't been used in a few hours, something it'd stopped doing with the old lamp.

"would like to upsize your order?" says every plumber ever. ;)

your UV going warm again after bulb replacement suggests the bulb had actually blown but the controller didn't pick that up. our one has always been warm (with no water flow) even after 4-5 years of use.

i don't think the UV degrades quite that much and considering your bulb is oversized even if it does degrade its still going to work. most of the house ones i've seen are a lot shorter.

our one is 2-3 times the length of yours and has never failed a water test (required every year) despite some very old bulbs. the controllers have been the issue for us, we have gone through quite a few. they don't seam to like rural power supply.

muppet

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#3067659 24-Apr-2023 15:37

I know the bulb was working still because I forgot "unplug it before you pull it out" rule!