Watching Spark Sport (including launch and pricing)

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#2292138 8-Aug-2019 10:08

freaknout: Just reading through, and excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain to me how the bitrate can remain the same at the same resolution when the FPS halves? Surely that’s just wrong?

For what’s it’s worth I imagine the change is down to ensuring quality of service once the demand ramps up. The World Cup is not far away and that will put considerable strain across the network. A downgrade now is going to impact a lot less people than the middle of the World Cup!

Can I also ask, that’s the best way to watch. I can use my iPad etc but will need to cast to the TV. Would it be better to buy an Apple TV or something to avoid the casting?

Thanks
J

Because the bit-rate is the same. Bit-rate is a measure of the bits per second.This hasn't changed

Generally when you encode video you provide it with a target bit-rate and it will try to output video at that rate. This is the amount of information that is needed per second to make up the video. This is a pure data value, it doesn't take into account any of the video features of the stream, i.e. resolution, frame-rate or colour space.

You can transmit a 480p at 25fps video at 6Mbps and it would look great as the information per-pixel-per-frame would be high. You can also transmit a 2160p (4K) at 25fps and the video would probably look rubbish as the information per-pixel-per-frame will be a lot lower.

The same goes for frame rate. You could transmit the information at 2160p at 1 fps and still 6Mbps and the information per-pixel-per-frame would be a lot higher than it would at if it was the same resolution at 25fps.

From the NZ NOG video Spark showed the encoding profiles, I don't have the material on hand. Both the 60fps and 30fps streams were at 6Mbps meaning that the theoretical information per pixel for the 60fps stream was halfed.

Note this is somewhat simplified, video encoding is more complex than this but the main point stands.

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#2292144 8-Aug-2019 10:22

evilonenz:
If the information via twitter is 100% accurate, I will be requesting a refund ASAP.

I played around last night using the Smart TV app on my Samsung TV and casting, both of which have terrible judder on high speed ball movements (tested using some of the old content they've included with the RWC2019 pass). It actually made me feel motion sick at one point, which is horrible given I generally don't suffer from it!

Sometimes the motion processing is the cause of your epilepsy. Try turning off motion processing (there may be more than one setting, turn them all off then start playing with each one, one at a time)

evilonenz

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#2292145 8-Aug-2019 10:23

Batman:
evilonenz:

If the information via twitter is 100% accurate, I will be requesting a refund ASAP.

I played around last night using the Smart TV app on my Samsung TV and casting, both of which have terrible judder on high speed ball movements (tested using some of the old content they've included with the RWC2019 pass). It actually made me feel motion sick at one point, which is horrible given I generally don't suffer from it!

Sometimes the motion processing is the cause of your epilepsy. Try turning off motion processing (there may be more than one setting, turn them all off then start playing with each one, one at a time)

That was the plan for tonight in fact, I just couldn't stomach it last night, so gave up for the night.

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#2292146 8-Aug-2019 10:25

evilonenz:
Batman:
evilonenz:

If the information via twitter is 100% accurate, I will be requesting a refund ASAP.

I played around last night using the Smart TV app on my Samsung TV and casting, both of which have terrible judder on high speed ball movements (tested using some of the old content they've included with the RWC2019 pass). It actually made me feel motion sick at one point, which is horrible given I generally don't suffer from it!

Sometimes the motion processing is the cause of your epilepsy. Try turning off motion processing (there may be more than one setting, turn them all off then start playing with each one, one at a time)

That was the plan for tonight in fact, I just couldn't stomach it last night, so gave up for the night.

Depending on how the source is encoded, there won't be one setting that rules them all. Play around now, and when the RWC goes live, use the knowledge gained earlier to further tweak it.

Be thankful that your tv has the right app!

networkn

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#2292149 8-Aug-2019 10:26

ALTRON:

Twitter account says there will be no 60fps for RWC2019

VERY disappointing.

Im not too sure that spark understands that there are a lot of passionate sports fans in NZ who want the best quality available.

Why did spark even buy the RWC in the first place if they were just going to produce the same thing as sky has done for decades.

relieved I didn't purchase the early bird tournament pass.

Which account are you seeing that announcement? The official site doesn't have many tweets lately and none about that (unless I am blind or on the wrong account).

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#2292151 8-Aug-2019 10:29

Spark seems to be making a hash of this. I have a voucher for Sparks RWC due to a phone I just purchased, I wonder if it is worth it. Maybe Spark should surrender and allow others to do it properly.

DNArewind

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#2292153 8-Aug-2019 10:32

SS team, have you directly compared the 25 fps stream you're providing to the same stream shown on HD FTA TV (i.e. 1080i50)? E.g. set up two screens side-by-side, one showing the SS Wimbledon Mens final, and the other showing the Duke feed. Watch the Duke feed for a few minutes, then switch over to the SS feed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sky Sports channels are going to look comparable to the Duke channel. 50 fields of deinterlaced content, 50 "frames" of motion perception.

If you look at a single frame, I find the SS stream more detailed, it's very good.

But when actually watching it play, I find the SS stream barely watchable. It's not just the ball, it's the player's movement too. My senses are telling me "something is wrong".

Many customers coming from Sky are going to have the same experience. How many people are going to be getting in touch with SS to check what's wrong?

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freaknout

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#2292157 8-Aug-2019 10:41

niallm90:

Because the bit-rate is the same. Bit-rate is a measure of the bits per second.This hasn't changed

Generally when you encode video you provide it with a target bit-rate and it will try to output video at that rate. This is the amount of information that is needed per second to make up the video. This is a pure data value, it doesn't take into account any of the video features of the stream, i.e. resolution, frame-rate or colour space.

You can transmit a 480p at 25fps video at 6Mbps and it would look great as the information per-pixel-per-frame would be high. You can also transmit a 2160p (4K) at 25fps and the video would probably look rubbish as the information per-pixel-per-frame will be a lot lower.

The same goes for frame rate. You could transmit the information at 2160p at 1 fps and still 6Mbps and the information per-pixel-per-frame would be a lot higher than it would at if it was the same resolution at 25fps.

From the NZ NOG video Spark showed the encoding profiles, I don't have the material on hand. Both the 60fps and 30fps streams were at 6Mbps meaning that the theoretical information per pixel for the 60fps stream was halfed.

Note this is somewhat simplified, video encoding is more complex than this but the main point stands.

Thanks niallm90, really appreciate your response.

bradstewart

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#2292159 8-Aug-2019 10:43

networkn:

ALTRON:

Twitter account says there will be no 60fps for RWC2019

VERY disappointing.

Im not too sure that spark understands that there are a lot of passionate sports fans in NZ who want the best quality available.

Why did spark even buy the RWC in the first place if they were just going to produce the same thing as sky has done for decades.

relieved I didn't purchase the early bird tournament pass.

Which account are you seeing that announcement? The official site doesn't have many tweets lately and none about that (unless I am blind or on the wrong account).

It wont be available for the RWC I'm afraid but we're doing everything on our end to improve the rate. ^LS

— sparknzsport (@sparknzsport) August 7, 2019

networkn

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#2292161 8-Aug-2019 10:49

That is grim.

They still have some tuning to do they think will help somewhat according to some reports, though I'd be surprised if it will be a patch on 60fps. May be better, but probably not great.

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#2292162 8-Aug-2019 10:50

networkn:

That is grim.

Grim? It's nothing short of treason.

Senecio

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#2292164 8-Aug-2019 10:52

Here's an interesting article from back in February on how Kayo Sports are dealing with 1st and 2nd Gen Chromecasts.

https://www.comparetv.com.au/news/kayo/clever-tech-behind-kayo/

Scroll down to the section "Chromecast and Kayo"

Chromecast 1st and 2nd generations are hardware-limited to a maximum of 720p at 60 frames per second, or 1080p at 30 frames per second,” he says. “Kayo Sports encodes the vast majority of its live stream events in 1080p at 50 frames per second, exceeding the parameters of these two devices. We limit generation 1 and 2 to our 720p HD content while allowing the newer generation to access the 1080p HD version. It is important for us to target high resolutions and framerates, as sport is all about fast moving pictures, and the higher the frame rate and resolutions, the smoother the motion.

It's as simple as Spark Sport have chosen to prioritise pixels over frame rates where competitors who understand the importance of frame rates have decided to go the other way.

Spark Sport, please follow Kayos lead and implement 720p 50fps on Chromecast Gen 1 & 2 and so the rest of us can have 1080p and 50fps.

networkn

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#2292179 8-Aug-2019 10:58

bradstewart:

networkn:

That is grim.

Grim? It's nothing short of treason.

I agree, but I am trying my best to maintain a calm demeanour lol.

Despite commentary to contrary, I honestly wanted this to succeed and be every bit as good as what I had been used to with Sky, and my negativity was bourne from the timeframes and the targets they had to hit to provide an equal performance. I just felt they underestimated

what would be required and how long it would take to get everything (including the consumers and commercial clients) ready for a good experience.

I made a prediction early on, and given the developments, I hope it comes true at this point.

niallm90

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#2292184 8-Aug-2019 11:07

freaknout:

Thanks niallm90, really appreciate your response.

Your welcome, thanks for responding. Previous comments I have made along the same lines seem to have been ignored. =(

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#2292186 8-Aug-2019 11:10

Let's get a bit side tracked for a bit.

Anyone knows what the rugby matches are recorded at 50 or 60 fps?

If 50fps there is no need to offer 60fps.
If 50, has any studies shown how you get that down to 30fps? Remove 20 frames or make up 30 new ones (which could explain the epilepsy effect)

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