Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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#1289038 22-Apr-2015 10:50

NonprayingMantis:

from a practical point of view, how would you enforce this?

How would an NZ court enforce HBO (based in America) and stop them from refusing to sell to a second party.

If HBO sells content rights to Sky, can HBO be forced by NZ to sell to somebody else in NZ (e.g. Lightbox)? At what price? What if Lightbox doesn't want to pay that price? Must HBO keep lowering their price until they get another buyer in order to avoid being 'exclusive'?

It wouldn't be enforcement as such, but would give Global Mode providers such as Bypass Systems the legal rope they need to offer their services. And because of that, NZ broadcasters could attempt to negotiate lower rates when purchasing content, due to the inability to no longer guarantee exclusive regional distribution rights.

But the key word there is "attempt". There is no guarantee that content creators would agree to this during negotiations, and the net result may well end up being that NZ broadcasters can no longer afford to purchase local distribution rights for marquee shows. We are then at the mercy of geo-unblocking services to continue to win the game of whack-a-mole.

This really is an interesting debate. As a parallel importer of SVOD services myself, I really don't want to see the demise of the ability to stream content from overseas that our local providers don't currently provide (or provide at vastly inflated prices). As a software developer, I'll never resort to torrenting to get to this content, as I'm morally opposed to doing that.

Being able to pay for parallel imported content sits well with my moral compass, as I know I'm feeding money into the content creation system. I get the argument that paying Netflix may ultimately be lining their coffers with more money, which may not necessarily be passed upstream to other content creators. But I posit that it still gives them more funds to purchase more content going forward. And when parallel importing content directly from the content creator (such as HBO Now), I find that argument holds less water.

I also get the need for local broadcasters to attempt to defend their turf. But I still reckon that going the Global Mode battle route is the wrong call, and won't be a game they'll easily win. They need to look at ways they can add value over the existing parallel imported systems. And the key to that may well be local content that these overseas SVOD providers have no interest in offering.

dclegg

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#1289043 22-Apr-2015 10:55

NonprayingMantis:

yep, there is some stuff I'm sure. But let's be honest, the main reason for these people to subscribe to HBO Now is Game of Thrones.

You're probably correct, although since subscribing we've found a wealth of content not available via Neon that we're currently enjoying.

And look at how well Sky have been doing with GOT S5 so far. Advertised simultaneous broadcast with US failed for episode 1. Episode 2 not available on Neon website until well after the traditional Sky broadcast, and not on the Neon iOS app (which is what we'd be using) until the next day.

That all may sound a bit first world problemey, but when you add in the fact that it's not even in HD, Neon appears as yet another over priced, underperforming offering. And I reckon that when Neon does eventually support HD, it'll be in a more expensive pricing tier than their current $20 subscription.

sultanoswing

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#1289044 22-Apr-2015 10:55

And the key to that may well be local content that these overseas SVOD providers have no interest in offering.

*Exactly*. This is how smaller local newspapers are surviving, by offering stuff that people still want that no-one else is offering. This is how you get exclusives - by creating and identifying exclusive content that others aren't delivering. IMHO exclusivity should not be through excluding the competition through protectionism.

MileHighKiwi

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#1289045 22-Apr-2015 10:58

NonprayingMantis:
MileHighKiwi:
gjen: HBO Now users outside US to be 'cut off Pay TV service HBO is threatening to cut off paying customers of its Now service if they are outside the US. It has sent emails to people around the world it has detected are using software tools to watch HBO Now shows. HBO said it took the action because it only has the right to broadcast shows in the US and to people living in the country. Email messages were sent to people in Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia,reported tech news site Torrent Freak. HBO Now was introduced as a way for people to watch HBO's programmes without the need to have a subscription to a television or cable service. HBO Now costs $14.99 (£9.50) a month. However, many people living in other nations have subscribed to HBO Now and used a variety of tools, including virtual private networks (VPNs), to get around the restrictions designed to stop people outside the US seeing popular shows such as Game of Thrones. In some countries, the cost of an HBO Now subscription was far lower than the price of buying a service from a native cable TV provider. The Sydney Morning Herald pointed out that watching HD versions of Game of Thrones in Australia via means other than HBO Now would cost more than 660 Australian dollars (£342). Earlier this week, HBO started sending emails to many people who use region-unlocking tricks and tools. The messages warned them that they would be cut off on 21 April if they did not contact HBO and satisfy it that they were eligible to watch the service. Those who did not contact HBO would be cut off without further notice, said the company. Earlier this year, Netflix started to take action against some VPN users and changed how its Android app worked in a bid to thwart some of those using software tools to defeat region locks. Netflix boss Reed Hastings said earlier this week that VPN users were "less bad" than pirates because they were at least paying for the service. His comments came during press interviews discussing the company's financial results.

Interesting. So the people who are 'illegally' accessing HBO Now via VPN and DNS will illegally torrent instead.

Maybe, or maybe they will subscribe to Neon or Sky. Neon is actually the same price as HBO Now, with the only downside right now being no HD (and yes, that is annoying, but really it's not that big a deal - especially not to the millions who torrented the less-than-SD versions leaked ahead of time)

I unsubscribed from Sky more than a year ago because it was unaffordable. I am certainly not going to rush back to them just to watch GOT. Same goes with Neon, it's sub standard technology and a half hearted attempt at SVOD. I had a 720p version of GOT at 5.30pm on Monday and it took 4 minutes to download and then stream via Plex (on the Roku) to my plasma. HD is a big deal; it makes all the difference for shows like GOT.

Plus, HBO Now enables you to watch Sopranos, Boardwalk Empire, True Blood etc...shows I have not seen but would like to. I am considering subscribing to it for those shows too.

Edit: there's really two components to this thread.

1. the legality of global mode and global distribution rights etc
2. the changing nature of television viewing

As a consumer I should be free to spend my money where I like. Sure, I downloaded GOT illegally on Monday but am seriously considering HBO Now. As far as I'm concerned I don't owe Sky anything. I object to spending money with them after doing so for more than 20 years (first got Sky at my parents when I was 14) and seeing the product deteriorate over time to be filled with ads, repeats of shows and loss of sports like EPL, Golf etc. We purchase a lot of our baby products from the USA because we get a better deal there. Same goes with some electronics. I think we need more choice and hopefully the legality of global mode is part of the move to a global SVOD economy.

sultanoswing

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#1289047 22-Apr-2015 10:59

dclegg:

That all may sound a bit first world problemey, but when you add in the fact that it's not even in HD, Neon appears as yet another over priced, underperforming offering. And I reckon that when Neon does eventually support HD, it'll be in a more expensive pricing tier than their current $20 subscription.

Yep. That's Sky 'nickle-and-diming' it as usual. Sell a lacking product, then charge extra for what should have been there in the first place if they were actually interested in offering genuine value.

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#1289125 22-Apr-2015 11:46

Here is yet another take: In the past I have been in contact with a number of young people through family friends and work I was doing at that time. I was struck then by the fact that none of them, not a single one, had a working television connection. I remember asking about this because it surprised me. They explained that they didn’t see the point; there was just nothing on NZ TV that interested them. Instead, they did their viewing on YouTube, Facebook and other social media sites. None were using any form of Geo-unblocking for this because none of these sites are blocked in the first place.

Last night one of my young friends came around for dinner. Afterwards we played with my new streaming computer. She spent the entire evening watching YouTube videos. She is 21 years old and also has no TV connection at home. Obviously, neither do her flatmates. The issue for them isn’t money or not wanting to go to the trouble, it is that NZ TV has such an utter lack of relevance to them that they can’t see the point of bothering to plug in the TV cable. They all do their viewing via YouTube and other sites, none of which are geo-blocked.

I would be interested to see an age breakdown of current NZ TV viewing figures, and also the average age of Geekzoners contributing to this discussion. Even if the media dinosaurs win this particular war, it may be a pyrrhic victory. If a significant number of young people in their early twenties cannot be bothered turning on the TV today, what is that going to mean for tomorrow?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

richms

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#1289139 22-Apr-2015 11:54

Rikkitic: Here is yet another take: In the past I have been in contact with a number of young people through family friends and work I was doing at that time. I was struck then by the fact that none of them, not a single one, had a working television connection. I remember asking about this because it surprised me. They explained that they didn’t see the point; there was just nothing on NZ TV that interested them. Instead, they did their viewing on YouTube, Facebook and other social media sites. None were using any form of Geo-unblocking for this because none of these sites are blocked in the first place.

Ive had an argument with an older couple that are friends of the family. They basically insist that young people are wasting their time on social media facebook fad and that its all a total waste of time.

I pointed out to them that they spent over 2-3 hours per night watching TV, which they think is a totally acceptable non waste of time activity. But facebook. No good will come of that. And youtube, its all just a waste of time. Yet they are quite happy to have someone read news stories to them slowly, even the ones they dont want to hear about because it gives them an oppertunity to complain at the TV. They are very happy to watch low budget made up stories padded out to fit into the needs of a schedule that they basically will interupt their personal activities to go and watch. They will watch pretty much whatever is on TV as their relaxation after a hard day at work (he wouldnt know a hard day if it happened) and they are basically learning zero from it.

People my age and less are more likly to be watching videos related to a hobby or sport or other interest they have on youtube etc. Somewhat more productive than some made up street in a country half way around the world or similar.

Richard rich.ms

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dclegg

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#1289140 22-Apr-2015 11:59

Rikkitic: Here is yet another take: In the past I have been in contact with a number of young people through family friends and work I was doing at that time. I was struck then by the fact that none of them, not a single one, had a working television connection. I remember asking about this because it surprised me. They explained that they didn’t see the point; there was just nothing on NZ TV that interested them. Instead, they did their viewing on YouTube, Facebook and other social media sites. None were using any form of Geo-unblocking for this because none of these sites are blocked in the first place.

Last night one of my young friends came around for dinner. Afterwards we played with my new streaming computer. She spent the entire evening watching YouTube videos. She is 21 years old and also has no TV connection at home. Obviously, neither do her flatmates. The issue for them isn’t money or not wanting to go to the trouble, it is that NZ TV has such an utter lack of relevance to them that they can’t see the point of bothering to plug in the TV cable. They all do their viewing via YouTube and other sites, none of which are geo-blocked.

I would be interested to see an age breakdown of current NZ TV viewing figures, and also the average age of Geekzoners contributing to this discussion. Even if the media dinosaurs win this particular war, it may be a pyrrhic victory. If a significant number of young people in their early twenties cannot be bothered turning on the TV today, what is that going to mean for tomorrow?

My 13 year old spends most evenings glued to her iPad watching content on YouTube etc. My 17 year old is also not a huge fan of what is on NZ broadcast TV, although there are a few SVOD shows she enjoys watching with us.

NonprayingMantis

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#1289141 22-Apr-2015 11:59

Rikkitic: Here is yet another take: In the past I have been in contact with a number of young people through family friends and work I was doing at that time. I was struck then by the fact that none of them, not a single one, had a working television connection. I remember asking about this because it surprised me. They explained that they didn’t see the point; there was just nothing on NZ TV that interested them. Instead, they did their viewing on YouTube, Facebook and other social media sites. None were using any form of Geo-unblocking for this because none of these sites are blocked in the first place.

Last night one of my young friends came around for dinner. Afterwards we played with my new streaming computer. She spent the entire evening watching YouTube videos. She is 21 years old and also has no TV connection at home. Obviously, neither do her flatmates. The issue for them isn’t money or not wanting to go to the trouble, it is that NZ TV has such an utter lack of relevance to them that they can’t see the point of bothering to plug in the TV cable. They all do their viewing via YouTube and other sites, none of which are geo-blocked.

I would be interested to see an age breakdown of current NZ TV viewing figures, and also the average age of Geekzoners contributing to this discussion. Even if the media dinosaurs win this particular war, it may be a pyrrhic victory. If a significant number of young people in their early twenties cannot be bothered turning on the TV today, what is that going to mean for tomorrow?

I'm similar (but older)

Aside from a bit of cricket during the world cup, I haven't watched a broadcast TV show for about 2-3 years.

The split of my video consumption probably goes 50% Youtube (mostly watching gaming related content - 'let's play' type stuff - not illegal stuff like 'full movie x') 30% SVOD (mixture of Lightbox and Netflix ) and 20% "Downloaded" stuff.

Out of those things, you are correct that things like youtube potentially pose the greatest threat to the traditional model. But are the TV networks trying to shut down youtube or facebook video? No they aren't. In fact I don't even think I've seen anything from them complaining about it. So maybe they accept it as fair competition because Youtube doesn't buy rights for one country then sell it in another breaking their contracts.

richms

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#1289151 22-Apr-2015 12:08

Ive tried watching TV recently, and to be honest I just start doing something else when the ads come on and never go back. I forced myself to see a campbell live episode almost in entirity when people were complaining about news possibly being cancelled (Oh no, lets announce that just after a quiet release that we are going to do callplus over for providing access to content that people actually want) and I just cannot come back to a show after an ad break. Attention has gone. Something else more interesting happening.

Richard rich.ms

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#1289210 22-Apr-2015 12:26

richms: Ive tried watching TV recently, and to be honest I just start doing something else when the ads come on and never go back. I forced myself to see a campbell live episode almost in entirity when people were complaining about news possibly being cancelled (Oh no, lets announce that just after a quiet release that we are going to do callplus over for providing access to content that people actually want) and I just cannot come back to a show after an ad break. Attention has gone. Something else more interesting happening.

The ads actually make me angry, even though I always make a point of muting them. Too many, too long, too frequent. This is why I have even stopped watching the news. I can get that on-line, without the irritation.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

1101

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#1289279 22-Apr-2015 13:14

MileHighKiwi:
As a consumer I should be free to spend my money where I like.

Sure , but no one HAS TO allow you the right to purchase.
Its the content creators right to be able to sell to whoever they choose, on their terms. What happens after that is another story.

The most logical thing would be for those with local exclusive rights, to complain directly to the content creators and have the content creator force Netfix etc
to enforce regional blocking (as per terms & conditions) .
You start at the top to enforce this, you dont try suing all those at the end of the string.
:-)

shk292

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#1289386 22-Apr-2015 14:36

1101:
The most logical thing would be for those with local exclusive rights, to complain directly to the content creators and have the content creator force Netfix etc
to enforce regional blocking (as per terms & conditions) .
You start at the top to enforce this, you dont try suing all those at the end of the string.
:-)

Hence my point that making exclusive rights - for anything - illegal in NZ would make this problem go away and deliver a competitive market for NZ consumers

Benoire

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#1289403 22-Apr-2015 14:47

It wouldn't make it go away, you would simply get HBO going 'ok Sky, you have rights', 'TVNZ or Netflix or Lightbox, sorry we're not interested as you didn't offer enough and we only want one provider'. No different to how it is now, unless the content owner is happy to accept a lower cost to purchase but allow multiple purchases per country... but again, with only one pay service and one three non sky affiliated SVODs in NZ, do they have the financial clout to make a difference? Exclusivity is probably a requirement of the broadcaster as they pay a lot of money for the content. I'd imagine to remove exclusivity, you'll either have to get ALL providers in NZ to pay the same amount equally or only a single one will stump up the cash requested.

For access to international content not licensed in NZ, you'll still have the same trouble as the content WOULD be licensed in NZ by 'x' number of providers. It also will not change the licensing rules for the content not bought for distribution in NZ.

Perhaps we will see Netflix simply buy up all the content and we'll have a different monopoly provider in NZ, once the licenses have expired.

Bee

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#1289407 22-Apr-2015 14:48

Sony is currently leaning on Netflix trying to force them to stop VPN/DNS users...

Netflix seems to be in favour of the global model, so we have to wait and see how this turns out

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