2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2735425 27-Jun-2021 17:59

sbiddle:

She was vaccinated as well (only with a single jab like him) though, so delayed onset of symptoms or testing positive is something that has been reported. We know that Delta typically has a quicker onset period of symptoms for people who have become infected.

I'm fairly sure the UK has confirmed (very rare) cases of people getting Covid after two vaccinations as well. The point being vaccination is not a guarantee of protection or transmission but still (and rightly so) strongly recommended.

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#2735429 27-Jun-2021 18:15

xlinknz:

sbiddle:

She was vaccinated as well (only with a single jab like him) though, so delayed onset of symptoms or testing positive is something that has been reported. We know that Delta typically has a quicker onset period of symptoms for people who have become infected.

I'm fairly sure the UK has confirmed (very rare) cases of people getting Covid after two vaccinations as well. The point being vaccination is not a guarantee of protection or transmission but still (and rightly so) strongly recommended.

Yes. The effectiveness means that some will get sick. It also means that all can transmit. You inhale Covid, your nose and throat are infected, it breeds. If you ae in the majority you won't get sick, but there are many reasons you can sneeze or cough apart from Covid. So you can spread it. The viral load is lower but its not zero

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#2735442 27-Jun-2021 18:25

xlinknz:

sbiddle:

She was vaccinated as well (only with a single jab like him) though, so delayed onset of symptoms or testing positive is something that has been reported. We know that Delta typically has a quicker onset period of symptoms for people who have become infected.

I'm fairly sure the UK has confirmed (very rare) cases of people getting Covid after two vaccinations as well. The point being vaccination is not a guarantee of protection or transmission but still (and rightly so) strongly recommended.

There have been very significant numbers of people who have been been fully vaccinated and contracted Covid globally - you have to remember vaccines have delivered efficacy figures of around 80 - 95ish % depending on vaccine and strain, and real world effectiveness seems slightly better but no vaccine for any disease has ever been 100%

What research hasn't yet shown us is real world figures of transmission in those people, obviously the belief is that being viral loadings will be significantly lower (or non existent in the case of Novavax animal trials) meaning you're not going to infect other people.

xlinknz

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#2735453 27-Jun-2021 18:48

sbiddle:

There have been very significant numbers of people who have been been fully vaccinated and contracted Covid globally - you have to remember vaccines have delivered efficacy figures of around 80 - 95ish % depending on vaccine and strain, and real world effectiveness seems slightly better but no vaccine for any disease has ever been 100%

What research hasn't yet shown us is real world figures of transmission in those people, obviously the belief is that being viral loadings will be significantly lower (or non existent in the case of Novavax animal trials) meaning you're not going to infect other people.

Add it will be interesting to see what the efficacy ramifications are for the the mooted and so called covid passports esp. for countries who have a policy of eradication e.g. NZ clearly allowing someone in based in confirmed double vaccination will be no guarantee for ensuring no outbreaks and consequences irrespective of where someone arrived from

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#2735455 27-Jun-2021 18:51

xlinknz:

sbiddle:

There have been very significant numbers of people who have been been fully vaccinated and contracted Covid globally - you have to remember vaccines have delivered efficacy figures of around 80 - 95ish % depending on vaccine and strain, and real world effectiveness seems slightly better but no vaccine for any disease has ever been 100%

What research hasn't yet shown us is real world figures of transmission in those people, obviously the belief is that being viral loadings will be significantly lower (or non existent in the case of Novavax animal trials) meaning you're not going to infect other people.

Add it will be interesting to see what the efficacy ramifications are for the the mooted and so called covid passports esp. for countries who have a policy of eradication e.g. NZ clearly allowing someone in based in confirmed double vaccination will be no guarantee for ensuring no outbreaks and consequences irrespective of where someone arrived from

In the medium term there won't be a policy of eradication. There will be a policy of vaccination and treatment. This will result in deaths.

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#2735476 27-Jun-2021 20:00

tdgeek:

The bubble was a sound and good idea. But as we have seen, it doesnt work out. If and when AUS is again "Covid free" the premise needs to continue. Go for it and enjoy but at any minute its over. Too many wanted the bubble as they have skin in the game. The issue now, is keeping other people's skin alive

You’re absolutely correct - if there’s going to be a bubble, it needs to only exist as long as all sides are CT-free. As soon as that’s not the case, the bubble must pop because the consequences aren’t worth it.

Sometimes we need to think about what’s right for the bigger picture, for everyone, not just what’s right for a select few who have skin in the game.

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#2735495 27-Jun-2021 20:51

xlinknz:
sbiddle:

She was vaccinated as well (only with a single jab like him) though, so delayed onset of symptoms or testing positive is something that has been reported. We know that Delta typically has a quicker onset period of symptoms for people who have become infected.

I'm fairly sure the UK has confirmed (very rare) cases of people getting Covid after two vaccinations as well. The point being vaccination is not a guarantee of protection or transmission but still (and rightly so) strongly recommended.

Not just get covid but die

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated

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#2735497 27-Jun-2021 21:07

Did you bother to actually read the article? You keep banging on that vaccines are ineffective against delta and need to be changed when the opposite is true.

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#2735508 27-Jun-2021 21:44

@Batman: Not just get covid but die

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated

Interestingly the US experience is that now most deaths occur in the unvaccinated population.

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#2735512 27-Jun-2021 21:52

freitasm:
@Batman: Not just get covid but die

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated

Interestingly the US experience is that now most deaths occur in the unvaccinated population.

The UK 1 dose strategy is quite different to the US version. One dose of either Astrazeneca or Pfizer are much less effective than 2 doses with Delta.

I'd be surprised if Delta is as widespread in the US as the UK.

It's also pretty hard to infer much in death numbers. They are very low in both countries now and very comparable to other endemic diseases.

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#2735515 27-Jun-2021 22:09

i thought the article said only 60% deaths got one dose ...

hopefully the other 40% have just had second dose

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#2735516 27-Jun-2021 22:10

freitasm:
Batman: Not just get covid but die

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated

Interestingly the US experience is that now most deaths occur in the unvaccinated population.

maybe Delta / Delta+ haven't spread.

we will know more soon no doubt

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#2735518 27-Jun-2021 22:30

Handle9:

The UK 1 dose strategy is quite different to the US version. One dose of either Astrazeneca or Pfizer are much less effective than 2 doses with Delta.

I'd be surprised if Delta is as widespread in the US as the UK.

It's also pretty hard to infer much in death numbers. They are very low in both countries now and very comparable to other endemic diseases.

A couple of weeks ago delta variant was only about 10% of known cases in the US. Exactly the same trend as what happened in the UK will occur, it's going to be the dominant strain everywhere until something even better adapted arrives.

The "partial immunity" thing in millions of people is a grave risk, one dose AZ = 30% efficacy, that's applying selective pressure, the random mutations that result in strains best able to infect those with partial immunity will be the winners. And around we'll go - the need for booster shots to deal with escape variants seems inevitable.

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#2735617 28-Jun-2021 09:47

antonknee:

tdgeek:

The bubble was a sound and good idea. But as we have seen, it doesnt work out. If and when AUS is again "Covid free" the premise needs to continue. Go for it and enjoy but at any minute its over. Too many wanted the bubble as they have skin in the game. The issue now, is keeping other people's skin alive

You’re absolutely correct - if there’s going to be a bubble, it needs to only exist as long as all sides are CT-free. As soon as that’s not the case, the bubble must pop because the consequences aren’t worth it.

Sometimes we need to think about what’s right for the bigger picture, for everyone, not just what’s right for a select few who have skin in the game.

Someone in Government knew there was Community Transmission in Sydney, and that the border was likely going to have to shut.

They decided the risk of allowing travelers until the very last second was worth it, and hundreds of thousands of people, and thousands of businesses are now paying the price for their sheer arrogance and stupidity.

Someone needs to own that and say we stuffed up. It wasn't an accident the traveler brought COVID, it was deliberate negligence by some one(people) placing a few tourists dollars over the lives and livelihood of kiwis.

This is why I despise our government at the moment. They knew the risk and placed the dollar value of a few tourists over the health and wellbeing of our own citizens.

This is not ok.

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#2735618 28-Jun-2021 09:54

Dude how far back in time do you want to apply this. This not the first time and no they won't say that. It's better to be lucky than to be good.

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