2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2512045 25-Jun-2020 10:46

Fred99:
Victoria requests 1,000 ADF forces to try to stem outbreaks of C-19 linked to quarantine centres in Melbourne:

The request came after concerns were raised about infection control standards at more than a dozen quarantine hotels where returned travellers are detained for 14 days upon arrival.
...
At least 33 contractors employed at the hotels have been infected while working, and coronavirus infections have spread outside hotels to the family members of staff, contributing to the state's spike in community transmissions.

That's an extremely good reason to 'require' a recent clear test before allowing passengers to return home.

AIRNZ should have this as a requirement on their tickets/boarding.
No Doctors letter/Negative Covid test evidence = not allowed to board.

And another good reason for DFNZ personal to completely man & run quarantine facilities.

(They are more likely to follow correct orders/processes to prevent taking it home to their families)
They could even be housed in 1 x floor of these same buildings & not go home
- it's 'normal' for them not to see their families for months at a time - so is perfectly normal for their families/children.
& if it stops the potential spread into the general public - even better!

Dingbatt

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#2512056 25-Jun-2020 11:18

concordnz:

That's an extremely good reason to 'require' a recent clear test before allowing passengers to return home.

AIRNZ should have this as a requirement on their tickets/boarding.
No Doctors letter/Negative Covid test evidence = not allowed to board.

And another good reason for DFNZ personal to completely man & run quarantine facilities.

(They are more likely to follow correct orders/processes to prevent taking it home to their families)
They could even be housed in 1 x floor of these same buildings & not go home
- it's 'normal' for them not to see their families for months at a time - so is perfectly normal for their families/children.
& if it stops the potential spread into the general public - even better!

Great in theory, impractical to administer. In many nations you would be able to ‘buy’ a doctor’s note to say whatever you wanted. For ‘official’ testing centres, who accredits them? If someone has to conduct a multi-leg repatriation to NZ, on which leg do they present their ‘evidence’? If they contract the virus enroute, who is responsible for getting them tested? We are talking about NZ citizens, who are entitled to return regardless of their state of health (I assume).

NZDF New Zealand Defence Force, not DFNZ (which I assume is something to do with duty free) ;-)

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

concordnz

474 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#2512102 25-Jun-2020 12:42

Dingbatt:
concordnz:

That's an extremely good reason to 'require' a recent clear test before allowing passengers to return home.

AIRNZ should have this as a requirement on their tickets/boarding.
No Doctors letter/Negative Covid test evidence = not allowed to board.

And another good reason for DFNZ personal to completely man & run quarantine facilities.

(They are more likely to follow correct orders/processes to prevent taking it home to their families)
They could even be housed in 1 x floor of these same buildings & not go home
- it's 'normal' for them not to see their families for months at a time - so is perfectly normal for their families/children.
& if it stops the potential spread into the general public - even better!

Great in theory, impractical to administer. In many nations you would be able to ‘buy’ a doctor’s note to say whatever you wanted. For ‘official’ testing centres, who accredits them? If someone has to conduct a multi-leg repatriation to NZ, on which leg do they present their ‘evidence’? If they contract the virus enroute, who is responsible for getting them tested? We are talking about NZ citizens, who are entitled to return regardless of their state of health (I assume).

NZDF New Zealand Defence Force, not DFNZ (which I assume is something to do with duty free) ;-)

>We are talking about NZ citizens,
Yes
>who are entitled to return regardless of their state of health (I assume)
No - I don't believe your assumption is correct.

In any case - I am not saying they are not entitled to return - I am simply saying there has to be a requirement they have a 'clear test' before they board an Aircraft.
(NZ is fully entitled to require this - (& there is plenty of ways for people to enter the country - even rowboat or ship. - just because flying is 'convenient' doesn't mean it is a 'right' )

My thoughts are - test must be from 'final leg departure country'.
(This reduces chances of fraudulent testing) - & if we get too many fake certificates we simply stop AIRNZ from flying to that destination...... (which is easy -airports simply refusing landing permission from those countries)

YES citizens have a right to enter their own county
NO they do NOT have a right to risk bring in pests or diseases into this country which could cause economic or physical harm to other citizens. (We have been enforcing this for decades - throwing out fruit & untreated goods people carry) - requiring a test is no different.

Many countries already require evidence of Yellow Fever immunizations or immunity status (these countries are free of these diseases & want to stay this way)
NZ/COVID-19 Is exactly the same.

Batman

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#2512112 25-Jun-2020 13:01

10 million dollars for bungee jumping company.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12342825

frankv

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#2512115 25-Jun-2020 13:02

mattwnz:

But it only worked and was probably the cheapest option for NZ, because we did it relatively early in the cycle, before the virus got widespread community transmission occurring. If we had waited much longer, then it may not have worked, or we may have had to be in lockdown even longer.

I disagree. The fundamental mechanism is the same: starve the virus of new hosts. It would work if we had 10 times the number of infections. It would have taken longer to get rid of it, and cost more, but it would work just the same.

ockel

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#2512121 25-Jun-2020 13:09

Batman: 10 million dollars for bungee jumping company.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12342825

You missed the ownership information:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300041859/aj-hackett-payout-corporate-welfare-for-richlisters-economist-says

So its not okay for corporates to get $7,000/worker wage subsidy given the rules the Government set in place but the Government can grant $250,000 per job to the corporates it deems worthy???

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

GV27

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#2512122 25-Jun-2020 13:09

Three new cases, all in facilities, no nasty surprises today 👍

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frankv

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#2512128 25-Jun-2020 13:11

ockel:

tdgeek:

I think you will find that our lockdown was the cheapest option. One hit, then its gone. Retail is at 2019 levels now. The significant lockdown, but also the cheapest, approach avoids the economy being thrashed for months if not years as we see elsewhere.

Can I query the source of your data? Stats NZ has electronic transctions data with retail sales in May 2020 being 6% lower than May 2019. And non-retail sales (services and other non-retail) being 13% lower (or $1bn) than May 2019.

All-of-May data is hardly indicative, since we were still in lockdown until mid-May. Or perhaps, since we got 94% and 87% in half the the month, it's indicative of a big upturn in spending compared to last year.

concordnz

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#2512135 25-Jun-2020 13:20

frankv:
mattwnz:

But it only worked and was probably the cheapest option for NZ, because we did it relatively early in the cycle, before the virus got widespread community transmission occurring. If we had waited much longer, then it may not have worked, or we may have had to be in lockdown even longer.

I disagree. The fundamental mechanism is the same: starve the virus of new hosts. It would work if we had 10 times the number of infections. It would have taken longer to get rid of it, and cost more, but it would work just the same.

Agreed 100% (with frankv)
(As long as there is no proven animal transfer)

Any country Can/& Still Could do EXACTLY the same lock down as what we NZ did & achieve full elimination.

(It's simply a matter of having a protocol which ensures 100% compliance with the lockdown rules & elimination of 'rule breakers' )

As has been said before.
*The virus doesn't move - PEOPLE move/spread the virus.

wellygary

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#2512137 25-Jun-2020 13:26

GV27:

Three new cases, all in facilities, no nasty surprises today 👍

+ the second person who travelled to Wellington is now recovered, so all cases are now physically within managed isolation/quarantine...

From across the ditch Melbourne is looked sketchy, but they are going to blitz two suburbs which are hotspots with doors knockers and mobile testing (so those to be tested can almost do it on their door steps), They are aiming to test 50% of the population of those suburbs over the next few days...

On a positive note, NSW is down to 5 active cases... so there is still hope for a TT Bubble in August/September....

concordnz

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Ultimate Geek

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#2512141 25-Jun-2020 13:30

+3 new Border cases today, = now 13.

Still 0 in general NZ population, which is fantastic.

vexxxboy

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#2512144 25-Jun-2020 13:32

wellygary:

GV27:

Three new cases, all in facilities, no nasty surprises today 👍

+ the second person who travelled to Wellington is now recovered, so all cases are now physically within managed isolation/quarantine...

From across the ditch Melbourne is looked sketchy, but they are going to blitz two suburbs which are hotspots with doors knockers and mobile testing (so those to be tested can almost do it on their door steps), They are aiming to test 50% of the population of those suburbs over the next few days...

On a positive note, NSW is down to 5 active cases... so there is still hope for a TT Bubble in August/September....

sorry but what will stop Victorians travelling to NSW to fly out from Sydney. i would think until the whole of Australia is under control then a TT bubble wont happen

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Batman

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#2512145 25-Jun-2020 13:33

ockel:

Batman: 10 million dollars for bungee jumping company.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12342825

You missed the ownership information:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300041859/aj-hackett-payout-corporate-welfare-for-richlisters-economist-says

So its not okay for corporates to get $7,000/worker wage subsidy given the rules the Government set in place but the Government can grant $250,000 per job to the corporates it deems worthy???

completely agree. the rich somehow always gets richer. now i know how/why.

concordnz

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#2512150 25-Jun-2020 13:39

A warning to all the Armchair critic's.
At some point one person is likely to get through.
(Testing results not 100% accurate or latency etc)

(Please don't lose your minds when this happens)

Dissapointingly - The media has FAILED to ask the relivant & pertainant questions around this.

What is the plan & protocol in place for when this happens.

This would go a huge way to reducing fear & developing public confidence (& knowledge) around this important matter.

[It's like the media is too lazy or dumb to ask important/relivant questions & would rather bleat on about irrelevant stuff]

wellygary

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#2512151 25-Jun-2020 13:40

vexxxboy:

wellygary:

On a positive note, NSW is down to 5 active cases... so there is still hope for a TT Bubble in August/September....

sorry but what will stop Victorians travelling to NSW to fly out from Sydney. i would think until the whole of Australia is under control then a TT bubble wont happen

I'm not saying there would be a bubble while VIC is in the current situation, before we get near a NZ/Australia Bubble the other Australian states are going to have to be happy with where VIC are...

What I am saying is the areas of infection are reducing....

A month ago both NSW and VIC had large numbers of Active cases often with community transmission, now its down to one state VIC

All the others now have only handfuls of cases,

So its certainly possible in 4-6 weeks that VIC could be at the same point on few/no cases...

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