Curiosity question re rotten food

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Rikkitic

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#212727 9-Apr-2017 14:58

Just wondering: If you happened to have some seriously spoilt food, whether meat or veg or anything else, could you make it safe to eat again by thoroughly zapping it with radiation sufficient to kill any bugs? Would doing this destroy any remaining nutritional value of the food? Is the dangerous part of bad food the living microbes or chemical changes brought about by microbe metabolism that would kill you even if the microbes were destroyed?

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#1759812 9-Apr-2017 15:03

Rikkitic: Is the dangerous part of bad food the living microbes or chemical changes brought about by microbe metabolism that would kill you even if the microbes were destroyed?

I would say the latter.

Ge0rge

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#1759817 9-Apr-2017 15:27

A significant amount of food imported to NZ is irradiated to kill micro organisms and to extend the shelf life of foods. By that alone, we're already eating irradiated food.

I suspect that, while eating rotten irradiated food may not necessarily kill you outright, the fact that there would be limited to no nutritional value from the food itself may mean you die of malnutrition instead.

Not a good answer I'm afraid, but an interesting thought.

Oncop53

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#1759819 9-Apr-2017 15:32

No. Mycotoxins can not be inactivated by gamma irradiation at the level used for food. Some can be inactivated by heat.

Oncop53

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#1759820 9-Apr-2017 15:39

Ge0rge: A significant amount of food imported to NZ is irradiated to kill micro organisms and to extend the shelf life of foods.

Actually very little food imported is irradiated, mostly just herbs and spices. Some mangoes as well. I wish more was treated this way, it is a great way to guard against biosecurity incursions and reduce pesticide use.

richms

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#1759837 9-Apr-2017 16:21

Ive never got peoples desire to eat spoiled food, and risk things that are past the useby date etc. Food is cheap. A day or 2 lost having the sh.ts because you ate something stupid has a much greater cost, and that is assuming that something worse doesnt happen.

Richard rich.ms

Rikkitic

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#1759841 9-Apr-2017 16:36

Who said I desired it? I was just asking a question I became curious about.

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networkn

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#1759843 9-Apr-2017 16:38

richms:

Ive never got peoples desire to eat spoiled food, and risk things that are past the useby date etc. Food is cheap. A day or 2 lost having the sh.ts because you ate something stupid has a much greater cost, and that is assuming that something worse doesnt happen.

This. I am ashamed to say we throw away a fair bit of food because we often buy more than we need with the best of intentions. Our schedules change abruptly right now but it's something I'd rather throw away, ESP meat.

mattwnz

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#1759848 9-Apr-2017 16:46

richms:
Ive never got peoples desire to eat spoiled food, and risk things that are past the useby date etc. Food is cheap. A day or 2 lost having the sh.ts because you ate something stupid has a much greater cost, and that is assuming that something worse doesnt happen.

Useby, is different to best before. No food should really be consumed after the useby date. While best before dates are just a guide to when food is at its best, and can usually be safe to consume after that date. Although depends on the food and age after that date. But many people thing the best before is some form of expiry date.

surfisup1000

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#1759858 9-Apr-2017 17:11

Rikkitic:

Just wondering: If you happened to have some seriously spoilt food, whether meat or veg or anything else, could you make it safe to eat again by thoroughly zapping it with radiation sufficient to kill any bugs? Would doing this destroy any remaining nutritional value of the food? Is the dangerous part of bad food the living microbes or chemical changes brought about by microbe metabolism that would kill you even if the microbes were destroyed?

You can kill the microbes but not the toxic waste products (ie microbe poo) . So, yes, you will still get very sick and possibly die.

[edit] you can get botulism from microbe excretions. Google "microbial toxins". Essentially microbe excretions which outlast the microbe itself.

gzt

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#1759923 9-Apr-2017 20:50

This thread reminds me of the myth that spices were added to cover rotten food.

In fact, some spices have preservative properties. Adding spices and condiments can slow decomposition. Salt is the ultimate preservative, but many other things have useful effects:

Cornell University: Garlic, onion, allspice and oregano, for example, were found to be the best all-around bacteria killers (they kill everything), followed by thyme, cinnamon, tarragon and cumin (any of which kill up to 80 percent of bacteria). Capsicums, including chilies and other hot peppers, are in the middle of the antimicrobial pack (killing or inhibiting up to 75 percent of bacteria), while pepper of the white or black variety inhibits 25 percent of bacteria, as do ginger, anise seed, celery seed and the juices of lemons and limes.

Batman

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#1759931 9-Apr-2017 21:26

I don't know how much radiation is needed to kill bugs, but it's not the bugs you should worry about, but the toxins they (already) produce(d), (not sure if they release any toxins when irradiated).

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#1759945 9-Apr-2017 23:15

richms:

Ive never got peoples desire to eat spoiled food, and risk things that are past the useby date etc. Food is cheap. A day or 2 lost having the sh.ts because you ate something stupid has a much greater cost, and that is assuming that something worse doesnt happen.

However, many people are far too neurotic with USE BY and even BEST BEFORE dates and waste perfectly good food as a result. The same goes for refrigeration.

mattwnz

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#1759956 10-Apr-2017 00:48

cadman:

richms:

Ive never got peoples desire to eat spoiled food, and risk things that are past the useby date etc. Food is cheap. A day or 2 lost having the sh.ts because you ate something stupid has a much greater cost, and that is assuming that something worse doesnt happen.

However, many people are far too neurotic with USE BY and even BEST BEFORE dates and waste perfectly good food as a result. The same goes for refrigeration.

Same goes for things in the freezer. Things in the freezer can last for years, but people seem to throw out perfectly good food once it reaches a certain age. I think there is far more risk eatting out at takeaways and restaurants, than at home. The only time I have ever gotten sick from eating food, is from eating out.

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#1759985 10-Apr-2017 07:18

We recently had a dumpster diving "opportunistic eater" stay with us as a WWOOFer for a couple of weeks.
Shared a couple of meals with him (roadkill possum with seaweed, and hedgehog with roadside leaves & fungi)

Didn't die!

He's part of a 'food rescue' group in North America, who go round removing recently discarded food from skips (& eating it), appears to have a photographic memory for plants & fungi & says he can smell the type of 'offness' of decay.

Both would have been super useful skills for a hunter-gatherer. Not so much in the modern world.

Coil

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#1759988 10-Apr-2017 07:24

Sidestep:

We recently had a dumpster diving "opportunistic eater" stay with us as a WWOOFer for a couple of weeks.
Shared a couple of meals with him (roadkill possum with seaweed, and hedgehog with roadside leaves & fungi)

Didn't die!

He's part of a 'food rescue' group in North America, who go round removing recently discarded food from skips (& eating it), appears to have a photographic memory for plants & fungi & says he can smell the type of 'offness' of decay.

Both would have been super useful skills for a hunter-gatherer. Not so much in the modern world.

Yeah had a few of those ones come past WWOOF'n on the farm i grew up on. They usually also have something against showering and brushing their teeth. Had one guy make up all this animal fat in jars to go tramping with. Dad suggested it wasnt the best food for trekking across the south island. This was the WWOOF'er that was airlifted out of the ranges cause he was starving and sick...

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