Rethinking urban roading projects...

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Rethinking urban roading projects...

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#285975 28-May-2021 14:07

Interesting article in the NYT:

Can Removing Highways Fix America’s Cities?

“As recently as a decade ago,” said Peter D. Norton, a transportation historian at the University of Virginia, “every transportation problem was a problem to be solved with new roads.” Now, the impacts of those roads are beginning to enter the equation.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/27/climate/us-cities-highway-removal.html?

We're in a different country with different problems - but also many similarities.

Perhaps we've also been seeing upsides, ignoring downsides, and a rethink is needed.

SheriffNZ

671 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2714627 28-May-2021 14:39

Yeah, "Build it and they will come". Induced demand.

Pretty sure building more roads isn't the answer. Even electric cars aren't the answer. Our roads that are currently filled with oil powered cars will just move to electric cars and then we'll still just have the same or more gridlock.

We need think differently about how we approach transport, both on an individual level and on a national level. Some people will need to continue to drive but we need to create better options for people.

To be fair, I drive an SUV, drive to work each day (dropping the kids at school on the way) and would drive to the supermarket down the road. I need to change that behavior. The kids getting older will help with that as they will be able to bike to school with me on my way to work. One we do that, we will all be fitter and happier I'm sure.

al8565

50 posts

Geek

#2714634 28-May-2021 14:59

Should be tax incentives for companies who encourage staff to work from home. Many of us can work from home very efficiently, yet we drive into work each day. That cannot continue. Divert money for new roads into reducing the number of people who commute.

frankv

5681 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2714641 28-May-2021 15:26

If you look at Induced Demand on Wikipedia you'll see that the converse can also work... reduce the number of roads, and you *reduce* the traffic on the remaining roads.

PolicyGuy

1731 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2714704 28-May-2021 16:13

frankv:

If you look at Induced Demand on Wikipedia you'll see that the converse can also work... reduce the number of roads, and you *reduce* the traffic on the remaining roads.

It would also be the only way to make cycling safe in many older parts of Wellington: turn some of the roads into pedestrian and cycles only; make others into one way only for cars with no or limited on-street parking, and properly wide enough pedestrian and cycle lanes; only allow two-way traffic and/or parking where there's enough width for however many car lanes or parking after you've made room for two-way cycle lanes.

It won't happen of course, because too many people are indissolubly wedded to their private motor vehicles (me included!)
And FENZ would have to buy a bunch of new much smaller fire appliances to navigate these newly-narrowed laneways & streets

wellygary

8345 posts

Uber Geek

#2714709 28-May-2021 16:21

al8565:

Should be tax incentives for companies who encourage staff to work from home. Many of us can work from home very efficiently, yet we drive into work each day. That cannot continue. Divert money for new roads into reducing the number of people who commute.

There are plenty of financial incentives for businesses to encourage staff to work from home now, the Biggest is the cost of renting downtown office space,

its not tax settings that make people drive to work....

SheriffNZ

671 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2714718 28-May-2021 16:40

PolicyGuy:

frankv:

If you look at Induced Demand on Wikipedia you'll see that the converse can also work... reduce the number of roads, and you *reduce* the traffic on the remaining roads.

It would also be the only way to make cycling safe in many older parts of Wellington: turn some of the roads into pedestrian and cycles only; make others into one way only for cars with no or limited on-street parking, and properly wide enough pedestrian and cycle lanes; only allow two-way traffic and/or parking where there's enough width for however many car lanes or parking after you've made room for two-way cycle lanes.

It won't happen of course, because too many people are indissolubly wedded to their private motor vehicles (me included!)
And FENZ would have to buy a bunch of new much smaller fire appliances to navigate these newly-narrowed laneways & streets

Case in point: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-traffic-onehunga-low-traffic-neighbourhood-trial-cancelled/W53YBTT7WDFAP7HSDQGYH3PNQ4/

Ragnor

8223 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2715374 29-May-2021 23:57

SheriffNZ:

Case in point: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-traffic-onehunga-low-traffic-neighbourhood-trial-cancelled/W53YBTT7WDFAP7HSDQGYH3PNQ4/

It was a predictable disaster and badly done, if you're going to reduce the utility of getting places on the road you need to provide a viable alternative.

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antonknee

1133 posts

Uber Geek

#2715413 30-May-2021 10:42

Pretty sad and disgusting how that Onehunga trial played out.

I personally know a number of residents who felt the anti-LTN brigade had simply steamrolled over everyone else’s view and taken things too far with the constant vandalism and destruction of the trial equipment. These are people who were quite grateful for their kids to be able to move around their own neighbourhood with less fear of being taken out by a car.

Also had to laugh at the whiners on the community Facebook page who have done nothing but complain about how noisy and busy and unsafe the traffic is now the LTN is gone… I wonder why.

Sam91

620 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2715427 30-May-2021 11:10

I think congestion pricing is one of the best options. Take the revenue from congestion pricing and pump it into public transport infrastructure and reduced fares, further incentivising the use of public transport and decreasing the demand for our roads.