EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#1616857 24-Aug-2016 14:29

Dingbatt: I see Tesla had just announced a 100 kWh battery. Good for 300mile (500km) range. Now we're talking. Although, I haven't seen how long it will take to charge from a standard all socket.

I checked the price: US$134,500 before incentives. (We get no incentives). Bring that down here and add GST on the shipping and the cost of the car. Not much change out of $200,000. You might consider it if you were SUPER ENTHUSIASTIC and also owned an Auckland house without a mortgage...and really wanted a mortgage.

I'm not that committed....yet, anyway.

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Linuxluver

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#1616859 24-Aug-2016 14:32

Dingbatt:

Agree, that's why my point was to abolish the per litre tax on petrol and just charge every vehicle an appropriate RUC. Target the vehicles you want people to drive with low RUCs.

Great idea.....and build a carbon tax into the ICE car usage. It's not just about the roads.

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MikeAqua

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#1616860 24-Aug-2016 14:33

Linuxluver:

Dingbatt: I see Tesla had just announced a 100 kWh battery. Good for 300mile (500km) range. Now we're talking. Although, I haven't seen how long it will take to charge from a standard all socket.

I checked the price: US$134,500 before incentives. (We get no incentives). Bring that down here and add GST on the shipping and the cost of the car. Not much change out of $200,000. You might consider it if you were SUPER ENTHUSIASTIC and also owned an Auckland house without a mortgage...and really wanted a mortgage.

I'm not that committed....yet, anyway.

But this is a performance vehicle, if you compare it to a petrol car with equivalent performance, it's a fair price.

Mike

Linuxluver

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#1616864 24-Aug-2016 14:37

joker97: Won't get past the socialist lobbyists, that just prejudices the poor who can't afford your expensive EV and have to drive old junk. The poor pay more. It's not like our public transport is world class either.

I've heard this argument before...and the answer is something like: "Who cares who starts lowering emissions first? In 10 years everyone will be driving EVs."

You can buy a LEAF on Trademe for about $12,000....though they are about Gen 1 and 5 years old and the battery will likely only be good for maybe 80km / charge. That's still a fine car for getting around Auckland.

The Gen 2 batteries are much improved and last longer....so the Gen 2 LEAFs - from late 2013 onward - fetch a higher price - high-teens is the starting point right not.

I note the Mitsubishi M-eiv cars are selling around $12-$13K. They had smaller engines and batteries anyway, but at 80km range they are also a good city car. That's Silverdale to the Bombay hills on a charge, with some head room left over.

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Linuxluver

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#1616869 24-Aug-2016 14:43

MikeAqua:

But this is a performance vehicle, if you compare it to a petrol car with equivalent performance, it's a fair price.

Totally agree.

I saw there are 2nd-hand Tesla S models available in the US (from Tesla - probably ex-lease) for just over US$50k. Typically 2013 60P models....so 3 years old and able to do 300kms. That would get you a Tesla landed here for well under $100k.

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Linuxluver

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#1616875 24-Aug-2016 14:58

MikeAqua:

Isn't the idea to use high speed DC charging systems?

If you can make significant inroads into range and recharge time, then you have a workable light-duty passenger vehicle or micro-duty goods vehicle (e.g. florist, pizza, courier).

I've heard it can take 40-ish hours to fully charge a 90p from empty on a 120v power point.

I think for the 'daily commute' you just charge the Tesla at home...and on regular US residential power it's slow. But as long as you drive less each day than you charge - almost certainly the case - after 3-4 days you'd have a full battery and be ready for a longer - single - trip. After that, you NEED a supercharger....or several days of walking around at your destination while the car charges.

At 240v it would be twice as fast to charge at home. That would be a no-brainer.

I went to the Telsa web site today and looked at where their superchargers are. It's very eye-opening. North America, Europe and East Asia are absolutely covered in superchargers. The eastern coast of Australia has a fair number - especially between Sydney and Melbourne and heading up the east coast.

Wow....incredible what they have accomplished in a handful of years.

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Linuxluver

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#1616887 24-Aug-2016 15:09

Here's a cool story. In order for countries to meet their emissions reduction obligations with respect to transport, it's estimated that in 2020 - just over 3 years away - 1/6th of all new cars sold will have to be EVs. This already factors in the reduced emissions expected from cleaner internal combustion engines.

Our own government's policy is nowhere near going to make that target.

1 in 6 cars sold in 2020 must be electric to meet fuel-economy rules: study

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#1616917 24-Aug-2016 16:00

Linuxluver:
Dingbatt: I see Tesla had just announced a 100 kWh battery. Good for 300mile (500km) range. Now we're talking. Although, I haven't seen how long it will take to charge from a standard all socket.

I checked the price: US$134,500 before incentives. (We get no incentives). Bring that down here and add GST on the shipping and the cost of the car. Not much change out of $200,000. You might consider it if you were SUPER ENTHUSIASTIC and also owned an Auckland house without a mortgage...and really wanted a mortgage.

I'm not that committed....yet, anyway.

My point is, that it is showing what is possible in negating range anxiety, and surely the cost of that sort of achievable energy density should come down over time. Particularly when the Giga-factory is in full swing.
Is it not "EV general news" if the cost goes over a certain threshold?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

wellygary

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#1616944 24-Aug-2016 16:31

Dingbatt:
Linuxluver:

Dingbatt: I see Tesla had just announced a 100 kWh battery. Good for 300mile (500km) range. Now we're talking. Although, I haven't seen how long it will take to charge from a standard all socket.

I checked the price: US$134,500 before incentives. (We get no incentives). Bring that down here and add GST on the shipping and the cost of the car. Not much change out of $200,000. You might consider it if you were SUPER ENTHUSIASTIC and also owned an Auckland house without a mortgage...and really wanted a mortgage.

I'm not that committed....yet, anyway.

and surely the cost of that sort of achievable energy density should come down over time. Particularly when the Giga-factory is in full swing.
Is it not "EV general news" if the cost goes over a certain threshold?

The price differenial between the 90 KWh and 100Kwh model is $10K USD,

They say that if you want to buy a new 100KW pack to replace your existing 90KW pack it is 20K USD.

While currently they are only sold in +$100K Sports cars, the fact you can get a 100KWh battery for 20K USD is the big news,

(Along with what impact it could have on the price of powerwall storage devices)-

benokobi

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#1616960 24-Aug-2016 16:47

Linuxluver:
Dingbatt: I see Tesla had just announced a 100 kWh battery. Good for 300mile (500km) range. Now we're talking. Although, I haven't seen how long it will take to charge from a standard all socket.

I checked the price: US$134,500 before incentives. (We get no incentives). Bring that down here and add GST on the shipping and the cost of the car. Not much change out of $200,000. You might consider it if you were SUPER ENTHUSIASTIC and also owned an Auckland house without a mortgage...and really wanted a mortgage.

I'm not that committed....yet, anyway.

Well it's cheaper than a S class AMG which I'd kinda compare it to. The price is hardly a issue considering the target market for Supercar like family sedans is very small and all are ~200k

Linuxluver

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#1617647 26-Aug-2016 07:07

The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) in the US asks "Where are all the EVs?"

Consumers want them. But can they actually buy them from the automakers who claim to offer them? Which automakers are leading or lagging? Who is all talk?

The insights here are very relevant to New Zealand. We are a small market with no regulatory requirement for new car vendors to offer electric cars for sale. So they mostly don't. It's the same in the US in the 42 states that similarly lack any requirement to offer EVs for sale.

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/ev-availability#.V79Aast5bqA

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Linuxluver

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#1624634 6-Sep-2016 15:09

"Disruption in Oil Markets is Just Beginning" - Forbes

EVs are on the edge of making a huge impact on the oil industry globally.

By Sam Ori

Extract:

"The near-term outlook for oil markets is a mess. Price volatility recently reached its highest level since the global financial crisis as traders, investors and the industry as a whole try to sort through the significance of two big changes: the rapid rise of the upstart U.S. shale industry, which grew from essentially nothing in 2010 to being the world’s sixth largest source of oil supplies in 2015; and Saudi Arabia’s decision to abandon its role as market manager.

These are important issues for the near term, but they pale in comparison to a much bigger set of long-term issues. Two mega-trends are gaining steam that together have the potential to truly upend the energy industry.

First, signs of serious competition to oil in its most important market—transportation—are beginning to emerge. In the United States, more than 70% of the oil we consume is burned in our cars, trucks, ships and aircraft. The figure globally is only slightly less, at 64%. And for at least the past 100 years, oil has been the only game in town when it comes to mobility fuel.

But based on a slew of data emerging over the past few weeks, that might be about to change. According to anew report from the Frankfurt School, global electric vehicle (EV) sales surged by nearly 60% last year, bringing the total number sold since 2011 to just over 1.1 million. That’s right—despite their higher purchase price, limited range and longer refueling times, electric vehicles took a massive step forward in 2015 even as oil prices collapsed. Incredibly, most of the growth came from China, where sales almost quadrupled compared to 2014."

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Krishant007

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#1624669 6-Sep-2016 15:40

I would like to hear from those that are charging the cars in their homes - how much increase in power consumption have you seen when charging the cars at home at night?

old3eyes

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#1624671 6-Sep-2016 15:43

Linuxluver:

"Disruption in Oil Markets is Just Beginning" - Forbes

EVs are on the edge of making a huge impact on the oil industry globally.

By Sam Ori

Extract:

"The near-term outlook for oil markets is a mess. Price volatility recently reached its highest level since the global financial crisis as traders, investors and the industry as a whole try to sort through the significance of two big changes: the rapid rise of the upstart U.S. shale industry, which grew from essentially nothing in 2010 to being the world’s sixth largest source of oil supplies in 2015; and Saudi Arabia’s decision to abandon its role as market manager.

These are important issues for the near term, but they pale in comparison to a much bigger set of long-term issues. Two mega-trends are gaining steam that together have the potential to truly upend the energy industry.

First, signs of serious competition to oil in its most important market—transportation—are beginning to emerge. In the United States, more than 70% of the oil we consume is burned in our cars, trucks, ships and aircraft. The figure globally is only slightly less, at 64%. And for at least the past 100 years, oil has been the only game in town when it comes to mobility fuel.

But based on a slew of data emerging over the past few weeks, that might be about to change. According to anew report from the Frankfurt School, global electric vehicle (EV) sales surged by nearly 60% last year, bringing the total number sold since 2011 to just over 1.1 million. That’s right—despite their higher purchase price, limited range and longer refueling times, electric vehicles took a massive step forward in 2015 even as oil prices collapsed. Incredibly, most of the growth came from China, where sales almost quadrupled compared to 2014."

Yes it will certainly make an impact over the next few years if the car makers ramp up EV production at a reasonable price.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#1624834 6-Sep-2016 22:14

Krishant007:

I would like to hear from those that are charging the cars in their homes - how much increase in power consumption have you seen when charging the cars at home at night?

It depends on how much you drove it.

You can calculate it precisely.

My Nissan LEAF has a 24kw battery. I am able to drive roughly 6.9km per kilowatt. Let's say I drove 60km today. 60 / 6.9 = 8.69kw to charge my battery to 100%.

I pay about 20c / kw....so that's 8.69 * $0.20 = $1.73

If I drove 120km and consumed 13.8kw it would cost me $3.46 to charge up.

It is possible to do better or worse than 6.9km / kw. A strong wind, a steep long hill, driving at 120kph....all can reduce your distance per kw. On the other hand, city driving improves your distance per kw (lots of breaking and deceleration regeneration back to the battery as you go) and on the highway you can help yourself a lot by following a big truck at a safe distance in relation to your speed. They break the wind for you and reduce your drag....so you go further for the same energy. I have seen about 10% improvement....and on a range of 160km being able to do 176km instead is worth it to me. Plus it makes my car cheaper to run. :-)

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