EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2646704 3-Feb-2021 23:45

Ge0rge:

Ah yes - that's been parked in Masterton for a little while now at the dealers - very impressive! There's certainly no making that electric in the short term...

Awaiting the end of the tax year, I suspect!

It is an odd vehicle for this part of the country. There are apparently only 2 in NZ - the other is where you would expect it to be, Canterbury Plains.

They are intended to work very large field systems comprised of light soils that are easily compacted. That in no way describes the Wairarapa farming system!

I was told that it was part of a "di*k swinging competition" between farmers...!

jarledb

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#2646720 4-Feb-2021 03:19

The off-topic posts are getting out of hand. This is a warning that new off-topic posts will be deleted.

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Handle9

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#2646722 4-Feb-2021 03:59

I'm sure this will trigger people on both sides of this debate.

kingdragonfly

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#2646751 4-Feb-2021 09:06

Regarding John Cadogan's videos, I agree with many points, but as usual disagree with him on the environmental impact.

Of course Australia is worse than most countries, even the US. Australia's primary energy consumption is dominated by coal (around 40 per cent), oil (34 per cent) and gas (22 per cent).

But as many scientific articles have shown (there are many links in previous posts), it's better for the environment to run a coal plant and electric vehicles, than internal combustion cars when you factor in fuel extraction, and transportation.

Fossil fuels don't mysteriously get transported and refined from under ground to fuel stations. Also it's much more energy efficient to run a few giant generators than a million small engines, even factoring in line losses.

However I'm with John Cadogan on buying that electric vehicles are less hassle and cheaper in the long run than internal combustion cars.

That fact they're better for the environment and quieter is icing on the cake. If I never hear another car with a loud muffler / Harley ever again I'd be a happy man.

frankv

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#2646759 4-Feb-2021 09:20

kingdragonfly:
However I'm with John Cadogan on buying that electric vehicles are less hassle and cheaper in the long run than internal combustion cars.

That fact they're better for the environment and quieter is icing on the cake.

Cheaper (for the purchaser) in the long run is still in the not-too-distant future... currently an over-8-year payback time on the purchase premium.

But I believe we now live in an energy economy... the price of a product largely reflects the energy used to produce and distribute it. So if something is cheaper, it is because it takes less energy to make it. And emissions are largely due to energy use in manufacture and distribution. So, generally speaking, cheaper is greener.

Jaxson

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#2646763 4-Feb-2021 09:29

Any thoughts on when a clean car incentive subsidy may come into effect, and if it will apply to hybrids as well as pure EVs?

HarmLessSolutions

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#2646789 4-Feb-2021 09:58

Jaxson:

Any thoughts on when a clean car incentive subsidy may come into effect, and if it will apply to hybrids as well as pure EVs?

I'm surprised this type of incentivisation wasn't included in the recent draft report, as well as more comment and promotion of domestic PV.

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morrisk

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#2646849 4-Feb-2021 10:15

kingdragonfly:

However I'm with John Cadogan on buying that electric vehicles are less hassle and cheaper in the long run than internal combustion cars.

That fact they're better for the environment and quieter is icing on the cake. If I never hear another car with a loud muffler / Harley ever again I'd be a happy man.

Not just the icing on the cake - being better for the environment is the whole point - cake and icing too. Its a win win

afe66

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#2646859 4-Feb-2021 10:25

Personally, as much as I like my leaf, Im not sure we as a country are rich enough to roll out large subsidies and I fear there is enough of a dixxxxhead segment of our community who would just go out a key a EV.

ie why are we funding greenie lefty cars when the waiting list for hip replacements is so long. "Cancer mum not get chemo but greenies get cars"

If you are going to subsidise, I wonder whether including hybrids would just mean people would buy them but not necessarily use the EV component.

If we do include them, they would have to be plugin hybrids and batteries would have to be of a minimum size ie greater than the average daily commute. If you cant plug charge the battery without petrol its just a petrol cars. None of this self powered EV nonsense.

For me, if there was one policy thing I would add would be to make pure EV exempt from fringe benefit tax. Would encourage business to go EV and increase second hand cars.

wellygary

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#2646862 4-Feb-2021 10:35

afe66:

Personally, as much as I like my leaf, Im not sure we as a country are rich enough to roll out large subsidies

The Billions thrown at COVID indicate that the government has the financial capacity to borrow money at crazy cheap rates,

if it is serious about this and the economics stack up, it would be crazy to hold back just because the government needs to help fund the purchase of EVS that will subsequently save the country billions in fuel imports and carbon charges...

Jaxson

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#2646941 4-Feb-2021 11:04

afe66:

If we do include them, they would have to be plugin hybrids and batteries would have to be of a minimum size ie greater than the average daily commute. If you cant plug charge the battery without petrol its just a petrol cars. None of this self powered EV nonsense.

I've been looking into this lately as a replacement for my parents small car.

It's surprisingly difficult to find a fully featured (new active safety features are very important in this purchase decision) small car that's EV or hybrid.
Mazda 2 doesn't seem to offer any EV component for example?

The Toyota Yaris is a self charge hybrid, and you notice that the power output of the hybrid ICE is much lower than solely ICE equivalent.
Suggests the hybrid ICE is tuned for lower fuel consumption and lower emissions than a standard non EV hybrid model where ICE provides the full sole power source.
Put together, and with regenerative braking charging, the efficiency is much better than solely ICE.

Not saying it's EV levels, but I do think it's a solid step forward and surely better than nothing.

Hybrid is $2 - $3,000 more (depending on trim model) than ICE though, and a subsidy that addressed that difference could make all the difference in decision making.

frankv

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#2646977 4-Feb-2021 11:51

wellygary:

The Billions thrown at COVID indicate that the government has the financial capacity to borrow money at crazy cheap rates,

*had*

if it is serious about this and the economics stack up, it would be crazy to hold back just because the government needs to help fund the purchase of EVS that will subsequently save the country billions in fuel imports and carbon charges...

Subsidies for EV purchase is basically money going overseas... it (plus consumer's savings) will go to car sellers in China and Japan. The COVID money was largely spent in NZ, where it propped up the economy. Long term, EVs will save money on fuel and carbon. But long term, EV prices will drop, also saving billions.

Obraik

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#2646980 4-Feb-2021 11:54

frankv:

Subsidies for EV purchase is basically money going overseas... it (plus consumer's savings) will go to car sellers in China and Japan. The COVID money was largely spent in NZ, where it propped up the economy. Long term, EVs will save money on fuel and carbon. But long term, EV prices will drop, also saving billions.

Most of what is purchased in New Zealand is essentially going overseas since most of what we want isn't made here.

Even if it the money from purchasing EVs is going overseas, it still benefits us as a country. We have less emissions, less health impacts and better energy independence

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PolicyGuy

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#2647106 4-Feb-2021 13:52

frankv:

Subsidies for EV purchase is basically money going overseas...

True but not relevant.

Every imported EV will prevent for the vehicle's whole lifetime the overseas purchase of petrol / diesel fuel, replacing it by electricity generated entirely from local sources.
If an average vehicle used 6l/100km and drives only 10,000km p.a., even a large import subsidy would be repaid may times over in the vehicle's 20 year (or more) lifetime.

Effectively, the import subsidy acts as a transfer between petrol companies and vehicle manufacturers.

The fact that these vehicle will also have negligible local carbon emissions is just a bonus!

wellygary

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#2647125 4-Feb-2021 14:58

frankv:

Subsidies for EV purchase is basically money going overseas... it (plus consumer's savings) will go to car sellers in China and Japan. The COVID money was largely spent in NZ, where it propped up the economy. Long term, EVs will save money on fuel and carbon. But long term, EV prices will drop, also saving billions.

Just like building pretty much every renewable power station in NZ in the last 20 years,

We buy wind turbines, Geothermal turbines, solar Panels etc all of which we pay $$ to overseas manufacturers for,

Last time I looked we don't make any cars in NZ so all that money is going offshore anyway, so adding a bit more to remove the ongoing fuel import costs is really not a big thing...

EV companies are going to get $$$ out of the Clean Car standard anyway.... as those importers with less then the set standard will be able to sell their "negative" emissions to other car companies to help them get under the limit...

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