frankv:

 

Ge0rge:

Nor is of very much value when the car is used to travel to work during the day.

 

Dunno... drive home after work, use what's left in your car battery to provide power for your cooking and heating, then charge up the car battery during the wee small hours for (if you live close enough to work, cooking your breakfast and) your commute.

 

butttt doesn't each charge cycle used on your EV battery make it take a step towards landfill? If so, using your EV battery life to cook a roast is going to make that lamb a mighty expensive meal.

There is inefficiency in the power conversion to either charge a battery or generate power from the charge in it.

It would make more sense overall to send excess rooftop solar generation back to the grid in the day, allowing the hydro generators to ease off and save their water for the evening rush hour.

It's shame the buy back rate doesn't make day time export worthwhile. 

Obraik:

 

Dingbatt:

 

Certainly has a political slant to it (article by Simon Court). I mean an engineer with quarter of a century in the energy industry, what could he possibly know that Megan Woods and James Shaw don’t?

 

NZ is currently importing coal to make up for the generation shortfall. So not using high quality coal from NZ, but using oil burning ships to bring lower quality stuff from overseas. Probably just as well NZF torpedoed the clean car policy (I guess they couldn’t call it the ‘green’ car policy) otherwise any increase in EV numbers achieved would have essentially be ‘coal powered’.

 

 

We use coal to cover the peak load and as far as I can tell, that's only coming from the two coal boilers at Huntly. There is a limit on how much power Huntly can supply via coal.

 

If Labour kicks off their pumped hydro plan that issue may disappear as that can then store off peak generation from renewable sources and supply it back into the grid during peak times and hopefully eliminating the need for Huntly at all. If there's not enough off peak generation to fully fill the pumped hydro storage then it might be an opportune time to incentivise rooftop solar.

 

I concede Simon Court is a Civil Engineer (although I note he includes ‘environmental’ projects in his CV) but I would suggest he probably retains more technical expertise than the entire government caucus combined.

My point was if the clean car legislation had already been in place then the additional EVs that arrive home on these cold calm winter evenings and plug in would have their additional energy requirements met by imported coal at the moment. Once the current La Niña (?) is over and the hydro lakes get topped up the coal won’t be required. But unless you incorporate some sort of time travel technology into the pumped hydro schemes I can’t see how that would alleviate the problem today.

Just to be clear, I agree with the idea of the feebate scheme. My biggest bugbear is the $80K limit, because that is just pure envy politics at work. An EV is a step in the right direction whether it costs $10K or $250K. I had to smile (and shake my head) that most of the EVs they showed in coverage of the announcement on MSM were well north of $100K including an eTron GT which is about $275K according the Giltrap European.

Jaxson: This starts the conversation around why are you paid so little to sell into the grid, compared with buying from it.

As the 10.5c is from our existing supplier Ecotricity it will work well in conjunction with their off peak rate which we currently use to charge our EV.

Dingbatt:

 

But unless you incorporate some sort of time travel technology into the pumped hydro schemes

 

*Steeples fingers*. Go on...

Dingbatt:

 

My point was if the clean car legislation had already been in place then the additional EVs that arrive home on these cold calm winter evenings and plug in would have their additional energy requirements met by imported coal at the moment. Once the current La Niña (?) is over and the hydro lakes get topped up the coal won’t be required. But unless you incorporate some sort of time travel technology into the pumped hydro schemes I can’t see how that would alleviate the problem today.

 

Which one is it?

Surely if the clean car legislation had already been in place then the pumped hydro schemes could also have been in place.  Why are you mixing one hypothetical idea for something that would require time travel technology, but excluding another from your hypothetical.  The fact is that changing to EVs will be a gradual process, especially with limited supply of EVs available to buy, so there will be time to add in more renewable power generation.  Even today the power produced by coal is the minority of power produced today and Huntly does NOT have the capacity to produce most of the power we need.

frankv:

There's no particular need for the pumped hydro to charge EVs, since the main benefit of pumped hydro is to shift the peak load. You can achieve the same thing by car owners setting timers to charge the car.

Since no-one has mentioned it, I'll add that rooftop solar is another, easily scalable, source of electricity generation that doesn't put any load on the network. Add some batteries and you'll be able to store your surplus power until you get home to charge your car rather than sell surplus power to the grid at 7c/kWh. Coincidentally, people repurposing slightly-too-tired-to-use-in-an-EV EV batteries to use with their home solar is one of the reasons why EV battery recycling is not yet a thing.

 

2WD  Ioniq 5 scrapes under $80K rebate limit.... -and you cant tell me it wasn't deliberate.

Still no mention of what volume will be available to NZ 

"Pricing starts at $79,990 for the 58kWh 2WD model, whilst the 72.6kWH battery starts at $89,990 for the 2WD and $94,990 for the AWD, increasing to $96,990 for the Elite 2WD.

The range is topped by the Limited AWD which will cost $109,990, or $112,990 for the with a Solar Roof option."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/125442777/the-new-ioniq-5-has-been-priced-qualifies-for-subsidy

debo: Hi, I apologise if this question has already been answered.

Does the charging efficiency of an old EV battery go down as well as its capacity?

It's complicated. The efficiency won't go down but in some cars it may charge slower

In some older Tesla Model S, there seems to be a "DC charge quota" and once you hit that, the DC charge rate will no longer reach what it once did. Tesla says this is to protect the battery and that you'd have to primarily DC charge your car to reach that limit. There hasn't been any evidence that this limit exists for the Model 3 but it's still a somewhat new vehicle 

wellygary:

2WD  Ioniq 5 scrapes under $80K rebate limit.... -and you cant tell me it wasn't deliberate.

Still no mention of what volume will be available to NZ 

"Pricing starts at $79,990 for the 58kWh 2WD model, whilst the 72.6kWH battery starts at $89,990 for the 2WD and $94,990 for the AWD, increasing to $96,990 for the Elite 2WD.

The range is topped by the Limited AWD which will cost $109,990, or $112,990 for the with a Solar Roof option."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/125442777/the-new-ioniq-5-has-been-priced-qualifies-for-subsidy

 

Batman: So according to the dealer it's not the list price of the car that gets you the rebate it's the final purchase price.

So if car is 79990 and you add a mat on the invoice you don't qualify.

If car is 150000 and your trade in a 70000 car you qualify.

Now I know a friend who has credits on business account with every so you can think of.

Imagine if he bought a 150000 EV and happens to have 70001 credit with the dealer....

I think that in those scenarios the invoice price would still be for $150K.

But if you sold a car valued at $71K for $1 to the dealer and they sold you a car listed at $150K for $79K, then you would qualify. And the GST payable would be much less. Or if you bought (say) a car battery for $81K and a car (less battery) for $79K.

Batman: 
So if car is 79990 and you add a mat on the invoice you don't qualify.
If car is 150000 and your trade in a 70000 car you qualify.

1. If I buy a 79990 car, the dealer is throwing in that $10 mat.

2. The total price paid for the new vehicle is still the 150000, just 70000 of it was in the form of a car.  Said another way, the dealer buys your old car for 70k, then they sell you a car for 150k and you give the dealer back the 70k as part of the payment. At least that's how I assume such trade-ins are structured from an accounting perspective, to keep the GST straight amongst other things.