EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#1747901 26-Mar-2017 10:05

RUKI:

frednz:

.......

Does a hybrid that isn't pluggable sometimes run solely on its battery even if its range is only 1-2km? Perhaps it does this when the vehicle is going quite slowly?

So what is the main advantage of a "non-pluggable" hybrid in comparison to a normal petrol engine? After all, even though it may not count as an EV, it does have, say, a 1.6 kWh battery.

......

I can reply as I have Prius C. When on driveway, in the garage, backing, or taking off, it never runs on gas, it always goes in EV mode automatically. When parking inside underground garage in CBD it is handy as you do not smell fumes. Consumption for the last few months is 4.1L/100 kms. 28L (tank is 36L) gives you about 700 kms range. When you are sitting in the traffic jam, or at the traffic lights - the ICE engine stops and you take off in EV mode. The main benefit for me is I can make round trip to places which I am frequently visiting where unfortunately there are no EV charging stations, not even planned in the nearest future and you can't make it in a popular Leaf (EV) ..

Thanks very much for your reply. Yes, your vehicle has several advantages when compared with a traditional non EV vehicle and you don't even have to worry about charging up the battery.

However, I wonder whether the Prius plug-in hybrid would provide significant extra advantages over your Prius C?

It says on Toyota's web site that:

"The Prius Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) gives you the option to travel in EV (electric vehicle) mode for up to about 26kms. Normal Prius hybrids can only travel in EV mode for up to 3kms before having to switch to hybrid. The Plug-in Prius has an advanced lithium-ion battery to make this possible. On longer trips the Prius Plug in can use its advanced power regeneration technology to regenerate EV range which will give you extra EV range at the push of a button."

If you only want one vehicle for all your travel needs, I'm not yet convinced that I should buy a "pure electric" vehicle at this stage!

Regards

Fred

NzBeagle

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#1747946 26-Mar-2017 11:12

Isnt the benefit in the high number of short trip drivers, so if you shoot to the dairy, nearby school or even work in some cases, then this gives you electric for 95% of the time and you have the range from fuel when you head out of town. Wouldn't work for my commute but I'm sure there's a high use case.

frednz

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#1748319 26-Mar-2017 20:35

NzBeagle:

Isnt the benefit in the high number of short trip drivers, so if you shoot to the dairy, nearby school or even work in some cases, then this gives you electric for 95% of the time and you have the range from fuel when you head out of town. Wouldn't work for my commute but I'm sure there's a high use case.

True, but I guess it depends on the main reasons why you want to buy an electric vehicle. If you are mainly concerned with reducing carbon emissions and doing your bit for the planet, then hybrids that use predominantly petrol aren't contributing that much.

I think an EV such as the 2017 BMW i3 which gives you about 180km of range from its electric battery and extends this to about 300km if it has a range extender, is a very good concept. I would buy one of these straight away if they weren't quite so expensive!

Cheers

Fred

Linuxluver

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#1748324 26-Mar-2017 20:48

frednz:

NzBeagle:

Isnt the benefit in the high number of short trip drivers, so if you shoot to the dairy, nearby school or even work in some cases, then this gives you electric for 95% of the time and you have the range from fuel when you head out of town. Wouldn't work for my commute but I'm sure there's a high use case.

True, but I guess it depends on the main reasons why you want to buy an electric vehicle. If you are mainly concerned with reducing carbon emissions and doing your bit for the planet, then hybrids that use predominantly petrol aren't contributing that much.

I think an EV such as the 2017 BMW i3 which gives you about 180km of range from its electric battery and extends this to about 300km if it has a range extender, is a very good concept. I would buy one of these straight away if they weren't quite so expensive!

Cheers

Fred

The 41kWh Renault Zoe has a 300km range and they are going for about $39K in NZ from EV Central (Taupo). They have secured 50 of them......

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frednz

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#1748334 26-Mar-2017 21:08

Linuxluver:

frednz:

NzBeagle:

Isnt the benefit in the high number of short trip drivers, so if you shoot to the dairy, nearby school or even work in some cases, then this gives you electric for 95% of the time and you have the range from fuel when you head out of town. Wouldn't work for my commute but I'm sure there's a high use case.

True, but I guess it depends on the main reasons why you want to buy an electric vehicle. If you are mainly concerned with reducing carbon emissions and doing your bit for the planet, then hybrids that use predominantly petrol aren't contributing that much.

I think an EV such as the 2017 BMW i3 which gives you about 180km of range from its electric battery and extends this to about 300km if it has a range extender, is a very good concept. I would buy one of these straight away if they weren't quite so expensive!

Cheers

Fred

The 41kWh Renault Zoe has a 300km range and they are going for about $39K in NZ from EV Central (Taupo). They have secured 50 of them......

Yes, that's a very good deal and the 300km range is great also.

If you compare the Zoe with the BMW i3, the 2017 i3 has a 33kWh battery, and I like the idea of the range extender's 9 litre fuel tank which powers a special little engine that is apparently able to charge the battery so it provides you with an extra 120km or so of range.

I think this has the advantage that once the 180km range from the electric battery has been exhausted, you can keep on filling the fuel tank with petrol every 100km or so without having to actually plug in to the battery and recharge it. So, provided you don't mind doing this every 100km, you can keep using an all electric car and drive say, 600km without needing to plug in and charge the battery.

Correct me if I'm wrong with how I've interpreted this!

Cheers

Fred

Scott3

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#1748355 26-Mar-2017 21:36

frednz:

Yes, that's a very good deal and the 300km range is great also.

If you compare the Zoe with the BMW i3, the 2017 i3 has a 33kWh battery, and I like the idea of the range extender's 9 litre fuel tank which powers a special little engine that is apparently able to charge the battery so it provides you with an extra 120km or so of range.

I think this has the advantage that once the 180km range from the electric battery has been exhausted, you can keep on filling the fuel tank with petrol every 100km or so without having to actually plug in to the battery and recharge it. So, provided you don't mind doing this every 100km, you can keep using an all electric car and drive say, 600km without needing to plug in and charge the battery.

Correct me if I'm wrong with how I've interpreted this!

Cheers

Fred

Yip, completly correct.

Linuxluver

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#1748522 27-Mar-2017 09:35

frednz:

Linuxluver:

The 41kWh Renault Zoe has a 300km range and they are going for about $39K in NZ from EV Central (Taupo). They have secured 50 of them......

Yes, that's a very good deal and the 300km range is great also.

If you compare the Zoe with the BMW i3, the 2017 i3 has a 33kWh battery, and I like the idea of the range extender's 9 litre fuel tank which powers a special little engine that is apparently able to charge the battery so it provides you with an extra 120km or so of range.

I think this has the advantage that once the 180km range from the electric battery has been exhausted, you can keep on filling the fuel tank with petrol every 100km or so without having to actually plug in to the battery and recharge it. So, provided you don't mind doing this every 100km, you can keep using an all electric car and drive say, 600km without needing to plug in and charge the battery.

Correct me if I'm wrong with how I've interpreted this!

Cheers

Fred

It's definitely a useful compromise. :-)

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RUKI

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#1748524 27-Mar-2017 09:38

frednz:

......

However, I wonder whether the Prius plug-in hybrid would provide significant extra advantages over your Prius C?

....

Depends on how big your wallet is, how frugal you are and what the use is. And also how you define the word "advantage". e.g. Small turning radius of Prius C gives competitive advantage vs most of other options. But Tesla's acceleration at the intersection gives obvious advantage (although I meet them in the next few seconds at the next traffic light :-))

1) You are looking at using car for just only 3 years as money is not an issue for you or it is solely for a business use (depreciate in 5 years);

2) Your approach is frugal and you may be looking at second hand, perhaps 5 - 7 year old and using it for another 10 years....

In case 1) - Plug-in or EV with appropriate range is cool;

In case 2) - I would not encourage to buy Plug-in or EV from currently available models as battery replacement / rebuild / fix will cost you an arm and the leg in the next few years. People who are saying the price for the traction battery is constantly falling are detached from the reality of New Zealand. The only affordable battery rebuild is currently (and in the few years ahead) is Toyota Hybrid HiMH Battery made of NP2 modules which are the same in the wide range (Camry, Lexus, Prius etc). Plug in uses Li and there is no source of second hand ones..

Linuxluver

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#1748528 27-Mar-2017 09:43

RUKI:

Depends on how big your wallet is, how frugal you are and what the use is. And also how you define the word "advantage". e.g. Small turning radius of Prius C gives competitive advantage vs most of other options. But Tesla's acceleration at the intersection gives obvious advantage (although I meet them in the next few seconds at the next traffic light :-))

1) You are looking at using car for just only 3 years as money is not an issue for you or it is solely for a business use (depreciate in 5 years);

or

2) Your approach is frugal and you may be looking at second hand, perhaps 5 - 7 year old and using it for another 10 years....

In case 1) - Plug-in or EV with appropriate range is cool;

In case 2) - I would not encourage to buy Plug-in or EV from currently available models as battery replacement / rebuild / fix will cost you an arm and the leg in the next few years. People who are saying the price for the traction battery is constantly falling are detached from the reality of New Zealand.

That's good advice.

I'd go even further and say anyone buying a NEW battery electric vehicle today be prepared to trade it every 6-12 months.....to preserve as much value as possible while upgrading to the next, newer, better EV. A bit like smart phones in 2008. The $1000 phone in 2008 was the $150 phone at Countdown in 2011.

EVs are evolving rapidly....so either buy a Tesla with 500km range today and still be current in 3-4 years with new cars......or trade-up frequently.

Adding....or is your use fits the profile, buy a cheap, older EV now and enjoy the new way of driving......and it won't cost as much or depreciate as much......until the new car that is prced right comes along. Like....a Gen 1 LEAF for $12500 that can do 100km on a charge and you really only need 50km each day. It will last a long time for not much....and save heaps in petrol and servicing (the latter, up to a point.....cars do age, even simple EVs).

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Linuxluver

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#1748565 27-Mar-2017 10:52

A new EV fast charger is now open in Te Awamutu, south of Hamilton.

It is operated by Charge.Net and Waipa Networks. This charger also puts an EV driver in a modest EV (30kWh Nssan LEAF, for example, or Hyundai Ioniq) within reach of Taupo (124.5km) though the elevation changes to over 600m along the way and chews up some power.

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Linuxluver

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#1748632 27-Mar-2017 12:11

Networks Waitaki have a new EV fast charger operational in Eden St in Oamaru as of this week.

Between Dunedin and Waimate, it fills a gap on SH1 and adds charging capacity on SH1.

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frednz

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#1748958 27-Mar-2017 20:32

Linuxluver:

RUKI:

Depends on how big your wallet is, how frugal you are and what the use is. And also how you define the word "advantage". e.g. Small turning radius of Prius C gives competitive advantage vs most of other options. But Tesla's acceleration at the intersection gives obvious advantage (although I meet them in the next few seconds at the next traffic light :-))

1) You are looking at using car for just only 3 years as money is not an issue for you or it is solely for a business use (depreciate in 5 years);

or

2) Your approach is frugal and you may be looking at second hand, perhaps 5 - 7 year old and using it for another 10 years....

In case 1) - Plug-in or EV with appropriate range is cool;

In case 2) - I would not encourage to buy Plug-in or EV from currently available models as battery replacement / rebuild / fix will cost you an arm and the leg in the next few years. People who are saying the price for the traction battery is constantly falling are detached from the reality of New Zealand.

That's good advice.

I'd go even further and say anyone buying a NEW battery electric vehicle today be prepared to trade it every 6-12 months.....to preserve as much value as possible while upgrading to the next, newer, better EV. A bit like smart phones in 2008. The $1000 phone in 2008 was the $150 phone at Countdown in 2011.

EVs are evolving rapidly....so either buy a Tesla with 500km range today and still be current in 3-4 years with new cars......or trade-up frequently.

Adding....or is your use fits the profile, buy a cheap, older EV now and enjoy the new way of driving......and it won't cost as much or depreciate as much......until the new car that is prced right comes along. Like....a Gen 1 LEAF for $12500 that can do 100km on a charge and you really only need 50km each day. It will last a long time for not much....and save heaps in petrol and servicing (the latter, up to a point.....cars do age, even simple EVs).

Thanks for this very good advice. I think a lot of people still have "range anxiety" with regard to "pure" electric vehicles, even though their range is gradually increasing. In this article about the new $60,000 28kWh Hyundai Ioniq pure electric vehicle it says that

...the five-door liftback, which is about the same size as a Hyundai Elantra, goes on sale with an entry price of $59,990 - thousands of dollars less than the EVs that have entered the Kiwi new vehicle market so far.

And secondly, Hyundai New Zealand claims that range anxiety is much less of an issue with the Ioniq. On a full charge it has a range of up to 200 kilometres, which makes it more than an urban commuter, and suitable also for normal use in regional and rural New Zealand.

In a test drive of the Ioniq between Queenstown and Glenorchy (a return distance of about 170k), it was reported that on the way back into Queenstown,

... the Ioniq began to panic, telling us that our battery charge was running critically low. We began to panic too, responding by completely turning off the air conditioning, gently using the brakes as much as we could as we approached intersections, and even not using the car's indicators.

As a result, we got to our destination, with an indicated 7 kilometres of battery charge left.

That was too close for comfort - our frayed nerves told us so. But at the same time the exercise proved to us that a range of upwards of 200km can be achieved in this electric car, and that the on-board computers are exceptionally accurate in advising how much juice is left and what is the remaining range.

This article might indicate to some buyers that owning a pure electric vehicle is great for running around town, but for longer distances, you really need a car with petrol back-up so that the "range anxiety" reported in the above test drive is avoided.

Fred

shk292

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#1748985 27-Mar-2017 20:56

frednz:

This article might indicate to some buyers that owning a pure electric vehicle is great for running around town, but for longer distances, you really need a car with petrol back-up so that the "range anxiety" reported in the above test drive is avoided.

Absolutely - but how many households only have one car? And how many cars average more than 100km per day?

I'd never have a current-tech (except Tesla) EV as an only car. But for a second car in a household, they are looking increasingly attractive

Linuxluver

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#1749300 28-Mar-2017 11:29

shk292:

frednz:

This article might indicate to some buyers that owning a pure electric vehicle is great for running around town, but for longer distances, you really need a car with petrol back-up so that the "range anxiety" reported in the above test drive is avoided.

Absolutely - but how many households only have one car? And how many cars average more than 100km per day?

I'd never have a current-tech (except Tesla) EV as an only car. But for a second car in a household, they are looking increasingly attractive

It won't suit everyone right now.....but as you can see in this topic, new chargers are opening all the time and it's getting easier and easier to get around.

I've been commuting roughly weekly between Auckland and Opotiki over the past 6 weeks. I tend to skip the fast charger in Whakatane now that I have my own 32amp charger at the Opotiki house.....and drive straight here from Tauranga.

I've been to Rotorua a few mornings to pick things up that I can't get in Opotiki or Whakatane.....and it's a two-hour drive on the one charge. I arrive, do my business, plug in for 25 mins while I have lunch or a coffee....and then drive home. No real inconvenience or problem at all.

With the Te Awamutu charger opening this week it's now possible to go from Auckland to Taupo and only charge once on the way.

It's just getting better every week.

The cases where it just doesn't fit are narrowing and will continue to narrow.

I'm driving from Auckland to Invercargill, starting on the 11th of April. I'll let you know how that goes. From Invercargill I'm driving to Cape Reinga...and then back to Auckland.

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trig42

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#1749307 28-Mar-2017 11:37

^ Your AKL to INV trip will be interesting.

I'm assuming you are doing it with other EV drivers? Will be interested to see if you have any Charger congestion - having to wait for others to finish.

At the moment, the charging infrastructure appears to exceed demand, which is great. Hopefully it can stay that way. The issues I see arising is lots more EVs on the road, and big waits (or inconsiderate users hogging the spots) at public EV chargers.

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