STOP means STOP?

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#2841740 2-Jan-2022 09:17

Jase2985:

don't guess, the white line is where you stop for the pedestrian crossing (give way line) and the yellow is where you stop for the stop at the intersection

Its a poorly designed intersection by the city council. i would struggle to think you could see to the right safely from where the while line is and it breaches the "at such a position as to be able to ascertain whether the way is clear for the driver to proceed"

Hard to say without actually being there but street view seems to indicate that stopping shy of the crossing allows you to see up to the left (would be better if they removed the parking where the red car is parked).

But regardless you are not allowed to stop on a pedestrian crossing.

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yitz

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#2841744 2-Jan-2022 09:29

blackjack17:

But regardless you are not allowed to stop on a pedestrian crossing.

The test guide suggests you can in some circumstances: https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/general-road-code/appendices/full-licence-test-guide/immediate-failure-errors/

It may be necessary to stop the vehicle on a pedestrian crossing to view approaching traffic before completing a turn at an intersection (see Figure 23). If the applicant takes all reasonable care to ensure that no pedestrian has to take evasive action, and it is necessary to stop on the pedestrian crossing to view approaching traffic, the applicant is not penalised. If more than one vehicle is queuing to make the turn, this exception applies only to the first vehicle in the queue (see Figure 24).

scuwp

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#2841805 2-Jan-2022 10:08

If you come to a complete stop second in the queue and can see traffic, and its clear then its fine to go. you dont have to be at the Yellow line, just able to see its clear.

Technically this is 100% correct. In the 'olden days' when there were traffic officers this type of detailed training in applying road law was given. I very much doubt this is the case now. You would very likely win in court if charged, but would be gambling on the police officer knowing his stuff on the side of the road these days.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

ben28

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#2841808 2-Jan-2022 10:10

Deanonzl:

Stop on the yellow line.

You stop for pedestrians at the white line.

The first car at an intersection can block a Pedestrian Crossing if required to navigate the intersection provided it doesn't impeded pedestrians . The second car can't block the ped crossing , it moves forward when the first car moves off.

For all Stop lines - You may stop at , after or before the yellow line . Must be a full stop - as in the wheels stop moving , feel yourself lurch back in the seat. You don't need to stop for 3 seconds (an urban myth!, first rant for 2022!)

freitasm

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#2841809 2-Jan-2022 10:10

@scuwp: You would very likely win in court if charged, but would be gambling on the police officer knowing his stuff on the side of the road these days.

You mean someone like K8Toledo's friend?

"Well the onus is on you to provide it since you disagreee, however a good friend of mine is a cop - I will ask him."

"I just phoned my friend - he is unsure. Said to ask NZTA."

martyyn

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#2841946 2-Jan-2022 15:43

I went through this with the Police two years ago. I was going so slowly at an intersection I was sure I'd come to a complete stop.

I was pulled over by an officer 100m up the road who said he'd watched me roll through through the stop sign and was given a $150 fine with no discussion entered into.

A lawyer friend specialising in traffic offences offered to take a look and found the stop sign was in fact illegal as neither the police, NZTA or relevant local authorities could prove it was installed with the correct paper work.

The Police agreed to drop the charge, I hadn't paid the fine and it was going to court by this time, and submitted "no evidence".

But the judge ruled against me saying he had looked it up on Google maps and because I wasn't there (on the Police advice to not turn up) I clearly thought I was above the law.

Needless to say I appealed, I won, and I now have a nice letter of apology from the Police commissioner.

But take it from me. Stop means stop, there is none of this rolling stop nonsense.

K8Toledo

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#2842224 3-Jan-2022 03:33

SomeoneSomewhere: This suggests that it's not legal anywhere in the US either, with the exception of cyclists in some states: https://www.quora.com/Are-rolling-stops-legal-at-stop-signs-anywhere-in-the-US I believe the wording is because not all intersections have a painted line showing where to stop, and 'at the line' is not a very precise definition anyway - how far forward or back can you go before not being 'at the line'?

Yep, I agree....it does look that way.

What’s interesting is the law clearly differentiates between complete stop vs rolling stop.

One has to ask why, if rolling stops are unlawful across the country, any such distinction is made at all (cyclists aside).

The screenie on right hopefully gives some context. Note the words "fails to come to a complete stop" (USA definition of rolling stop).

Below is from NZ Land Transport (Road Rules) Act.

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Handle9

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#2842225 3-Jan-2022 04:31

K8Toledo:

SomeoneSomewhere: This suggests that it's not legal anywhere in the US either, with the exception of cyclists in some states: https://www.quora.com/Are-rolling-stops-legal-at-stop-signs-anywhere-in-the-US I believe the wording is because not all intersections have a painted line showing where to stop, and 'at the line' is not a very precise definition anyway - how far forward or back can you go before not being 'at the line'?

Yep, I agree....it does look that way.

What’s interesting is the law clearly differentiates between complete stop vs rolling stop.

One has to ask why, if rolling stops are unlawful across the country, any such distinction is made at all (cyclists aside).

The screenie on right hopefully gives some context. Note the words "fails to come to a complete stop" (USA definition of rolling stop).

Below is from NZ Land Transport (Road Rules) Act.

There are different signs - a give way allows a rolling stop, a stop sign requires you to stop. Not think about stopping, not rolling stop but completely stop.

US definitions are completely irrelevant.

freitasm

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#2842232 3-Jan-2022 06:57

@K8Toledo, I think it's about time to let go any mention of US traffic laws in this context.

Jase2985

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#2842299 3-Jan-2022 08:27

all the top screenshot on the left is saying is that "failing to come to a complete stop" is no longer a critical error in the full license test. its not saying its no longer a road rule. Its been moved to a Immediate failure error.

shk292

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#2842301 3-Jan-2022 08:39

Presumably the correct term for “rolling stop” in NZ is “Claytons Stop”
Apologies to those too young to have seen the adverts

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2842395 3-Jan-2022 10:48

It's hardly unusual to have different levels of punishment/criminality for things that are both illegal; in this case "doing a 'rolling stop' instead of a full stop" and "ignoring a stop sign completely".

MadEngineer

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#2842400 3-Jan-2022 11:25

jarledb:

By the way. This is a fun little intersection in Paraparaumu Beach.

Am I supposed to do a full stop at the white or yellow line? Or both?

In case this isn't clear:

stop where you can see vehicles coming from all directions

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

jarledb

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#2842430 3-Jan-2022 12:36

MadEngineer:

jarledb:

By the way. This is a fun little intersection in Paraparaumu Beach.

Am I supposed to do a full stop at the white or yellow line? Or both?

In case this isn't clear:

stop where you can see vehicles coming from all directions

So full stop at both lines? Or just yellow?

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MadEngineer

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#2842437 3-Jan-2022 13:06

I think you're looking into it too much. It's quite simple and is clearly spelled out in the law

The stop sign applies to the intersection not the pedestrian crossing. You don't stop at the lines rather you stop at a position that provides you with a clear view of the intersection such that you can see all approaching vehicles. You'd only need to stop at the white line if there are pedestrians to give way to.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

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