When is an oil leak not an oil leak?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › When is an oil leak not an oil leak?

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#1206426 31-Dec-2014 13:31

nzkiwiman: Getting another car at this stage is not an option, I wish I could (though at the same time, I love my car and it does everything I need it for)

1. Check oil weekly, fill to the upper mark.

2. Drive it forever. (or until cat fails & visible emissions appear)

nzkiwiman

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#1206469 31-Dec-2014 14:03

Jase2985: if it were me this is what i would be doing

1. look round the entire engine for any signs of an oil leak, if you find one take a photo, then wipe it up
2. revove dipstick, clean and reinsert all the way, top up oil to top mark on dipstick do this when cold, record km's, could be helpful to take a photo of the level for reference
3. drive for a couple of weeks/one tank recard km's, then recheck oil level, again clean dipstick first then insert all the way before measuringl, and again do this when cold (ie first thing in the morning) and as above a photo so you can compare

report back with how much oil it used, maybe post the picture and how far you traveled.

then we can give you a better recommendation on what to do. we dont have enough actual information on what is actually going on and how much oil its burning

Will do
The oil fills are always done when cold as an FYI :-)

Super Cheap Auto had a 1/2 price sale on oil so I took advantage off

kiwirock

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#1206481 31-Dec-2014 14:17

How many K's on this engine are we talking about?

Could be rings, valves, cracked sump, cracked head, blown head gasket, only spilling out of engine from rear main engine seal when car is running etc... I'd check around the bell housing for tell tale leaks. Also check around the bottom of the cam belt housing incase it's a front oil seal some where etc...

Give the car a good 20 minutes before you check the dip stick. My Stagea takes around 30 minutes for all the oil to drip down. If you check mine at 15 minutes it looks like it's out of oil, however at 30 minutes the dip stick is full again.

Also if you don't change your oil often enough, you can get a lot of moisture in the oil which will burn off on the highway if you don't do much highway motoring. But what you're claiming, is a %^$^ load of oil. I'd expect to see blue smoke or a big sign of an oil leak from somewhere. Also check near the oil filter that incase it hasn't been put on tight enough at the last oil change.

Is this car a turbo? The turbo seals may be blown but I'd expect to see smoke once again. If there's no bluish smoke I'd assume the car is leaking it somewhere.

My car is starting to eat oil at 211,000K's (I use a 5W-40) and I can't see it but I can smell it, but we're only talking maybe 1/4 to 1/2 a litre between oil changes (each 6 months).

You should be able to smell it and see it at your amount of oil disappearing problem.

nzkiwiman

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#1206519 31-Dec-2014 14:39

kiwirock: How many K's on this engine are we talking about?

Could be rings, valves, cracked sump, cracked head, blown head gasket, only spilling out of engine from rear main engine seal when car is running etc... I'd check around the bell housing for tell tale leaks. Also check around the bottom of the cam belt housing incase it's a front oil seal some where etc...

Give the car a good 20 minutes before you check the dip stick. My Stagea takes around 30 minutes for all the oil to drip down. If you check mine at 15 minutes it looks like it's out of oil, however at 30 minutes the dip stick is full again.

Also if you don't change your oil often enough, you can get a lot of moisture in the oil which will burn off on the highway if you don't do much highway motoring. But what you're claiming, is a %^$^ load of oil. I'd expect to see blue smoke or a big sign of an oil leak from somewhere. Also check near the oil filter that incase it hasn't been put on tight enough at the last oil change.

Is this car a turbo? The turbo seals may be blown but I'd expect to see smoke once again. If there's no bluish smoke I'd assume the car is leaking it somewhere.

My car is starting to eat oil at 211,000K's (I use a 5W-40) and I can't see it but I can smell it, but we're only talking maybe 1/4 to 1/2 a litre between oil changes (each 6 months).

You should be able to smell it and see it at your amount of oil disappearing problem.

Car has done 189,000 km - was 57,400 km when I purchased in September 2005
As mentioned before, oil check is done on the flat and when the engine is cold (if I need to take the car out over the weekend, I try to check the oil if I remember - reminder set every fortnight Saturday 9am)
Oil is changed every 6 months when car goes in for service and WOF
90% of my commute to work (Mosgiel to Dunedin) is motorway via State Highway 1
Not a turbo - 1596cc

No smell, no visible fumes, just an almost clean dipstick

I've got a few things to check over the weekend thanks to posts in this thread ..

Jase2985

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#1206524 31-Dec-2014 14:47

is it DOHC or SOHC? whats the model? honda civic xyz

what oil are you buying from super cheap?

MadEngineer

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#1206572 31-Dec-2014 16:33

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Homeware/Uv-Dye-Light-Kit/9999432158885

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

kiwirock

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#1206702 1-Jan-2015 02:09

nzkiwiman:
Car has done 189,000 km - was 57,400 km when I purchased in September 2005
As mentioned before, oil check is done on the flat and when the engine is cold (if I need to take the car out over the weekend, I try to check the oil if I remember - reminder set every fortnight Saturday 9am)
Oil is changed every 6 months when car goes in for service and WOF
90% of my commute to work (Mosgiel to Dunedin) is motorway via State Highway 1
Not a turbo - 1596cc

I agree also with the comment checking the rocker cover gasket. I did both of mine (some have two) about 170,000 from leaking on to the exhaust but it wasn't enough to be measurable at the dip stick. I had a slight leak and VTNZ picked up on it because it was on the exhaust manifold side. The inspector said he had seen the aftermath of a car fire cause by hot oil igniting during a prolonged hill climb with a leak similar. It was easy enough to replace the gasket myself.

When I first got my current car, my mechanic pulled the trans and replaced the rear main engine seal (no cost to me I had a mechanical warranty I got for free otherwise I normally don't get them). But it turned out to be a rocker cover gasket leak at only 90,000k's after they did a crude air pressure test on the engine. Mine has rocker cover gaskets and moon seals on the back of the engine that don't mate perfectly and need sealant between them I later learned when I had to re-do them properly at 170,000. The oil leaked down and dripped from the bell housing hence the idea it was a rear main seal. That was a lot of work for not checking the rocker cover gasket well enough.

It's also worth double checking the actual oil sump plug is snug not loose. I know you haven't seen any leaks on the ground but just be sure. I've seen a red fibre washer used instead of a cooper one and like a gasket it can compress to much and allow a plug to work it's way loose. But I've only ever seen this once and it was the cause of an empty dip stick after a month from being last checked.

Hope for the easiest solution :o) Then work your way up to the harder ones. If you don't clean your engine it should be easier to spot an actual oil leak. It sounds like it should be really obvious though.

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kiwirock

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#1206704 1-Jan-2015 02:18

joker97: So at 80C surely the oil is closer to the 40 number and not the 10/15 number? Asking this for my education. Got a turbo Subaru. Not sure what the Subaru recommends but dealer puts 5/30 oil and I bring them my Mobil 1 0-40 as I do a lot of cold starts and short (2.5kms!) Driving in winter to avoid falling on frost

Nice oil! I'm to cheap but not cheap cheap. For years I've used magnatec. I got a kick out of seeing little bits fly sideways and stick to the engine cover when added oil. I like the principal of it. But I started getting a few taps from start up after a few years and realised then oil grade can effect variable valve timed engines a little.

Now I use Shell Helix Ultra I think 5-30 or 5-40 (a little cheaper than Mobile 1). Too low a weight when cold though can effect oil pressure in older cars that have not so good pressure relief valves. My 211,000 probably warrants an older oil to stop it eating just a little oil each 6 months, but I'd rather top the engine up than listen to a little tapping at start up.

ilovemusic

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#1206795 1-Jan-2015 11:17

had a few older turbo soob sti's.

mechanic recommended castrol edge 10w60 - great oil but almost never discounted !

he would drop the whole 5l in as a preventative measure against the dreaded subaru big end bearing failure.

also had leaky rocker covers, never discovered until the under engine tray was removed to fix a loose exhaust.

:(

Bung

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#1206802 1-Jan-2015 11:30

I don't know the fine detail of Honda preferences for oil but consider that if a 5w-? is ok for northern hemisphere winter use something that is frequently discounted like a 10w-40 would do here. I use that grade in our Suzuki. In that engine's case rattles on startup mean that the oil filter has drained so I trade cheaper oil against slightly dearer Japanese filters with good antidrain valves.

Sidestep

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#1207136 2-Jan-2015 13:21

Bung: I don't know the fine detail of Honda preferences for oil but consider that if a 5w-? is ok for northern hemisphere winter use something that is frequently discounted like a 10w-40 would do here. I use that grade in our Suzuki. In that engine's case rattles on startup mean that the oil filter has drained so I trade cheaper oil against slightly dearer Japanese filters with good antidrain valves.

Yep.

A couple of my vehicle owner's manuals state that the engines will explode into a million unwarrantable pieces if anything other than 5W-20 is used.
Also says in giant writing on the oil filler caps "USE 5w-20 ONLY"

But - for the conditions I use the vehicles in - 10W-30 is fine.

One reason for the manufacturer's insistence on that grade is explained here.

Agree the quality filter & anti drain valve is essential. That start up rattle is engine damage.
I've run oil pressure accumulators on vehicles where low start up pressure was an unavoidable engineering compromise.

nzkiwiman

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#1208492 5-Jan-2015 13:08

So, on Saturday after taking the dogs for a walk (drive to walking spot, walk, drive back) I parked the car on the flat outside house.
Left overnight and in the morning checked things over.

Could not find any signs of a leak around the engine
Since my last clean, the inside of the exhaust tip was a little dirty
The oil level on my car however was full - a little over the maximum fill mark on the dip stick.

So, now I am even more confused.
In order to check the oil in the past, I would roll the car down to the road (as the driveway is on an slope) and push it to the kerb in order to be as close to level as possible.
Then I would check the dip stick twice.

Given my new result of going from empty to just on minimum a week ago when I last checked to full a week later, I guess my previous oil check method was faulty.

As I need to get petrol today and I know the oil is full, I will check again in 2 weeks when I need petrol again and see if there is any change.

My new question - if I have actually been OVER FILLING my car with oil as I thought it was empty, does that cause damage?

Cheers

Bung

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#1208513 5-Jan-2015 13:22

Depends on the engine. If the excess amount raises the level high enough to reach moving parts you'll probably end up with an engine full of oil foam and burn the excess off.

frankv

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#1208518 5-Jan-2015 13:25

Depending on the slope, it could be that oil was moved to some part of the sump away from the dipstick when you rolled your car down. Or maybe when you turned it at the bottom to get parallel with the road.

A little over full will do no harm, although it may waste a bit of oil. A *lot* (say a litre or so) over full may do harm, depending on the type of engine. Sorry, I can't say exactly what type is at risk... I just remember having to drain some oil out after I'd overfilled by a lot.

Frank

Jase2985

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#1208548 5-Jan-2015 13:55

check it on the petrol station forecourt as they are generally pretty flat

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