Outlander v Outlander PHEV v Tiguan

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#3206291 14-Mar-2024 11:39

I've been exclusively trawling dealer-only listings (buying privately makes me nervous), but I decided to take a look at what was in the private seller listings, and found this:

2016 Mitsubishi Outlander NZ NEW Top Spec VRX PHEV | Trade Me Motors

Price is competitive, but KMs are little on the high side. Owner reports battery SOH at 87.5% when he bought it 14 months ago and is getting around 35-40kms of range. It's NZ new so the stereo is usable - but probably no Carplay based on the age (I think Mitsubishi introduced Carplay from 2017 models onwards). Might be worth a look. The next cheapest PHEV in the area is a 2014 model at Turners for a grand more - fewer kms, but not NZ new, no towbar, and no info on the battery.

Scott3

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#3206316 14-Mar-2024 13:01

On the outlander PHEV, battery degradation is highly variable. Some cars degrade quickly within a few years, others old up OK. As a new car buyer essentially you carry the risk, but as a used buyer you can check and see how the battery is holding up so far. (PHEV watchdog software or similar). - This applies to the older shape. I have no info on the new shape.

There is a discussion on here from some years back going into outlander PHEV degradation.

I understand that the version of the car with the 2.4L engine is substantially more desirable.

Note that these cars will be extremely hard to sell at the moment, so some sellers will be quite negotiable. (Calculating RUC off an assumed 70% electric running is unattractive to many buyers, and the EV ruc rate is quite high compared to what non plug in petrol hybrids pay in fuel tax)

gzt

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#3206321 14-Mar-2024 13:11

The nice thing about 140kkm one owner and practically compulsory service is everything which needed to be replaced under warranty has been replaced, in theory. 160kkm might be the next major service interval. You should find out what replacements are recommended in manual for your expected mileage during your planned ownership.

Lizard1977

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#3206348 14-Mar-2024 14:43

Scott3:

On the outlander PHEV, battery degradation is highly variable. Some cars degrade quickly within a few years, others old up OK. As a new car buyer essentially you carry the risk, but as a used buyer you can check and see how the battery is holding up so far. (PHEV watchdog software or similar). - This applies to the older shape. I have no info on the new shape.

There is a discussion on here from some years back going into outlander PHEV degradation.

I understand that the version of the car with the 2.4L engine is substantially more desirable.

Note that these cars will be extremely hard to sell at the moment, so some sellers will be quite negotiable. (Calculating RUC off an assumed 70% electric running is unattractive to many buyers, and the EV ruc rate is quite high compared to what non plug in petrol hybrids pay in fuel tax)

Thanks. I haven't gone down the route of trying to do the whole PHEV Watchdog thing, as I'm only considering purchasing. If I already had it, it would be good for checking these things when out on test drives, but I'm hoping to make a decision in the next couple of weeks, so don't think it would be worth trying to get hold of the necessary hardware.

Others have warned about the RUC issue. I've been "eyes wide open" on this matter from the beginning, and when calculating the costs I've factored in paying RUCs. For the type of mileage/driving I do, it still seems to be cost-beneficial for me. I average between 8-10K kms each year, and around 20% of that is open-road driving (usually once a year to Auckland, and some smaller trips regionally). Using the battery for most urban daily trips, I've assumed the rest of the distance would be around 5L/100kms. This gives me an estimated 560L of fuel per year (which I think is probably overestimating it), and even with RUCs it works out cheaper than most of the other cars I've looked at except for a Subaru XV which claims 7.1L/100kms. If the lobbying about RUCs for PHEVs is successful and RUCs get lowered, all good. But I'm okay with it at the level that's been floated. And if the fuel economy for urban driving is better than I've assumed, then so much the better.

Lizard1977

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#3206349 14-Mar-2024 14:53

gzt: The nice thing about 140kkm one owner and practically compulsory service is everything which needed to be replaced under warranty has been replaced, in theory. 160kkm might be the next major service interval. You should find out what replacements are recommended in manual for your expected mileage during your planned ownership.

I had a quick chat with the local Mitsubishi dealer at lunch. He said much the same, that it would be good for major items until about 160K kms, and that service would be around $700 for things like the transmission oil service. He said for PHEVs to avoid anything over 100K kms, but when I queried that he was using it as a proxy for the state of the battery health. If battery health is above 80% for that kind of mileage, then it would be pretty good.

I've now found two private-sale PHEVs which are looking pretty good. One is NZ new, with higher KMs (136K) but has the VRX spec, towbar, and battery SOH 87.5% from just over a year ago, for $22K. The second is an import, but a year newer with just over 100K kms, a NZ new factory headunit installed (with Carplay), for $20k. I'm slightly leaning to the NZ new option (with good battery SOH), but the newer model also looks good and if the battery was in good condition then it looks like a good prospect (and I can get a towbar fitted easily enough).

I've never bought privately. What is the "etiquette" for things like test-drives? I know that "caveat emptor" applies even more when buying privately - getting a pre-purchase inspection, and checking for things like money owing, stolen vehicle, etc. I'll be using finance for the purchase, so presumably there needs to be some kind of sale and purchase agreement. Can anyone point me to a good checklist for all this stuff?

cddt

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#3206366 14-Mar-2024 15:46

Lizard1977:

I've never bought privately. What is the "etiquette" for things like test-drives? I know that "caveat emptor" applies even more when buying privately - getting a pre-purchase inspection, and checking for things like money owing, stolen vehicle, etc. I'll be using finance for the purchase, so presumably there needs to be some kind of sale and purchase agreement. Can anyone point me to a good checklist for all this stuff?

Check what your finance company requires of the vendor... having sold a couple of cars recently, the people who need finance seem to need reams of forms filled with all the personal details of the vendor, for reasons which were never made clear. Didn't help that the finance company was one I had never heard of and couldn't find much evidence of actually existing other than a PO Box number. Ended up being too hard and I re-listed with a strict "cash only" condition.

My referral links: BigPipe | Mercury

Scott3

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#3206369 14-Mar-2024 16:05

Lizard1977:

.... I've assumed the rest of the distance would be around 5L/100kms. ...

I think 8 - 9 L/100km would be more realistic for an outlander PHEV in hybrid mode. They are not partially efficient in this mode.

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Lizard1977

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#3206371 14-Mar-2024 16:11

Scott3:

Lizard1977:

.... I've assumed the rest of the distance would be around 5L/100kms. ...

I think 8 - 9 L/100km would be more realistic for an outlander PHEV in hybrid mode. They are not partially efficient in this mode.

I based this off a test-drive I did last weekend on a PHEV Outlander. Driving a typical daily journey around town, I used 22kms on battery, and never used the petrol engine once during that time. But I know that's not realistic, and there will be times when I would be using the petrol engine around town when the battery charge is low. The 5L/100kms is my assumed average over the year for urban driving. For any given week, I could envisage racking up only around 100kms with most of that on EV, and a very small amount on petrol.

cddt

1565 posts

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#3206385 14-Mar-2024 17:06

Scott3:

I think 8 - 9 L/100km would be more realistic for an outlander PHEV in hybrid mode. They are not partially efficient in this mode.

Our ICE Outlander does better than this. 6 - 7 L / 100 km highway, around 9 - 10 L / 100 km around town.

My parents have been driving a hybrid (not-PHEV) RAV4 for almost two years and seem to be averaging 5.7 L / 100 km (mixed). This is closer to what I would expect from a PHEV - in fact would expect the PHEV to be quite a bit lower.

My referral links: BigPipe | Mercury

gzt

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#3206387 14-Mar-2024 17:12

Using the battery for most urban daily trips, I've assumed the rest of the distance would be around 5L/100kms.

No, not the Outlander. It's a slightly less thirsty SUV. It's not a best of class hybrid unfortunately.

duckDecoy

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#3206570 15-Mar-2024 11:01

Seeing as you have touched on this yourself I thought I'd chime in.

Does the eventual resale value make a difference to you? Because the battery will be old when you come to resell it which might make it difficult to shift.

Lizard1977

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#3207344 17-Mar-2024 22:10

That is a good point, and one I haven considered. None of the car's I've ever owned over the last 28 years have ever fetched more than a grand or two on trade in, but that's because I tend to buy them used and keep them until they are no longer economical to keep running. A PHEV Outlander would be the most expensive car I've ever bought, so it does sting that over the duration of my ownership I would be "using up" so much capital value (at least, compared to my previous cars). But then I never expect to sell my cars when I'm done with them and make much back on the sale. I could imagine that might be the case if I was buying new or near new, and selling them or trading them in after a couple of years to get something newer or better. I've always tended to try and eke out as much use from a car rather than trading up or across.

The "usability" of a 12-15 year old PHEV in 2032 is probably going to be quite low. That probably counts as a point in favour of a traditional ICE Outlander or similar SUV/station wagon. The main alternative I've been considering is a 2019 Outlander with 145K kms - after 8 years it would be 13 years old, with about 230K kms on the clock. I suspect it won't be attracting a big price on trade in (or private sale) at that point either. But I suppose it would be more attractive than a 15-year old PHEV with 180K kms and a very worn-out battery pack.

Lizard1977

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#3209095 21-Mar-2024 11:58

As I've been edging closer to the 2017 PHEV Outlander (I tried out the 2019 ICE Outlander with the kids in the third row, and almost immediately discounted it - hard to get the booster seat secure, kids were rolling around every time I went round a corner, the eldest (9 years) had her knees almost up around her ears. It doesn't seem practical or sensible, especially as they will both be getting bigger in the years to come. I concede the point - this kind of 7-seater isn't practical), I looked around for anything else that might be worth a look. I stumbled into the Kia range, and I have to say I really like the look of the newer (2022+) range. So I decided to go into the local dealer and take a look.

Even though I wasn't sold on the older style, the dealer encouraged me to take a look at a 2019 Seltos LTD (this one here - 2019 Kia Seltos LTD | Trade Me Motors). I have to say I was impressed. It felt a lot nicer and looked a lot better inside than I expected. Photos don't really do it justice. The LTD is the highest spec for its year, with a 1.6L turbo. I took it for a drive and I found it almost as enjoyable as the Tiguan (but presumably without the maintenance costs and issues that plague the VW line).

It was outside my price range, but the dealer seemed willing to make a decent cut on the price and give me a pretty good price for my Legacy. It's still outside my budget, but I might be able to strong-arm him into getting closer.

The question is - just as I was nearly settled on the PHEV Outlander - I'm now questioning that and looking at the Seltos. Anyone have anything to say about the Kia Seltos 2019?

Lizard1977

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#3209171 21-Mar-2024 14:40

Further update - I spoke to the finance manager at the dealer, and they set out an option where they matched the same interest rate offered by my pre-approved finance provider, and with a 3-year warranty they could structure the repayments at $250/fn over 5 years with a $7.5k residual. I've never explored the idea of finance with a residual payment. Anyone have any insights into this? My instinct is to pay off the loan as fast as possible and own the vehicle outright. Is there any advantage to the residual approach, other than allowing me to lower my repayments now for a higher purchase price?

sen8or

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#3209188 21-Mar-2024 15:30

The finance manager will be loving your loan structure.

The cost of keeping your payments to a level you can afford is an increase in the overall cost of credit, by quite a margin. Without knowing exact specifics of your loan, a 5 year loan on a $30k purchase with a $7.5k residual will cost you $11.5k in interest approx (assuming 12%), the same loan with no residual will cost $10k in interest (the payments are about $90/mth higher across the term).

You have to think what happens at the end of the loan term too, will you have $7.5k in cash to repay, or will you have to refinance it, incurring more costs?

They'll want you to trade at that point ofcourse, get you into something else, thats their job.

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