tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

 

 

You have made the same points over and over again. JA got on stage and wanted to talk as if she had the facts, and she doesn't. She didn't say "Hey guys, I'd love to talk facts, but because we only saw the books last week, we are still working stuff out", she is stating stuff as fact.  You might want to excuse her, I won't. I wouldn't if the situation was reversed.

 

Simple economics will tell you that if the Government is paying for something, it means the TAXPAYER is paying for it. Just because she is using 7B from the non tax cuts, doesn't mean you aren't paying for it. It's an opportunity cost. Bottom line, whatever the Govt does, everyone pays for. If my kids don't choose tertiary education, then I miss out on those benefits, despite having contributed to those who have. I am not saying *I* have an issue with it, but it's worth nothing because not everyone thinks of what's happening behind the scenes.

 

 

 

 

You also keep repeating that as if its a sad excuse that the books were only recently opened. If the roles were reveresed, Bill would be playing catchup in days to align his policies with whats in the pot. Yes, costs are a cost to all taxpayers. I get no benefit from funding those on the dole, or sickness benefits or DPB people, and probably many many other things. Thats normal, the tertiary thing isnt any different. Apart that it will help more people get better jobs and rely less on Govt and provide more to the economy over time  

 

Where is the evidence to support the claim it will help people in the ways you have suggested? To my knowledge, there was no correlation between interest-free student loans and an increase in the quality of education or the number of highly skilled jobs on offer. or number of highly trained people on offer. It was a blatant election bribe one that has been panned by experts the world over. It put a millstone around the necks of the NZ Taxpayer.

I can absolutely see the benefit of helping people on a temporary basis with welfare, in an effort to help them to help themselves. I 100% support those who have a legitimate illness that prevents them from working. I applaud ACC's efforts to help those with disabilities to find alternative types of work. My Father in Law had a horrific sporting accident and retrained from being a Builder to being an architect. He as been a contributing member of NZ Taxpaying society for the past 15 years as a result. Money spent on his rehab was paid back many times over. 

I think funding tertiary education is a mistake and an expensive one. I worked by ass off whilst I learned, and so did my wife. I think it made us better people. We took responsibility for our learning and I my wife and I are both well trained and moderately succesful in our careers. We already provide assistance to those who are learning by way of student loans and other supplements. If there is a genuine feeling (backed by facts) that this is insufficient, then we could potentially look at increasing it. 

I'd be extremely surprised if the benefit to the economy of such a policy equals or is more than the $7B they are suggesting it will cost (I say it will cost more than that).

Potentially, if they were to quantify it a lot so that you get a % written off when you finish your course, and another % if you work in NZ in the role you are qualified for for say 2-3 years, but ultimately people need to take responsibility for the benefits they have received. Education shouldn't be any different. I would be keen to see some stats on what percentage of people don't do tertiary education in NZ, and how many of those would honestly say the only reason they didn't do it was cost. THAT should be the primary consideration for whether there is an education policy of this type, otherwise it's essentially buying an election.

BTW I think this is the third time that JA has said she will use the cancellation of tax breaks to pay for a policy, I don't think she understands that the total pot is $7B and she can't spend that much 3 times.