2019 road toll already in the triple digits. What will Jacinda do?

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Forums › Politics › 2019 road toll already in the triple digits. What will Jacinda do?

Wellingtondave

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#248600 1-Apr-2019 23:01

Ambivalent NZ public as usual? Scared of regulation and 'freedoms' being taken away?

Does it makes you think a couple of weeks on from recent events?

Intelligent people discuss;

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#2209157 1-Apr-2019 23:50

There are things that could be done.

They won't be because the realpolitik will make it too hard.

Compulsory lessons before you can take a test
Power/weight ratio restrictions on cars for new drivers
More speed cameras
Higher infringement penalties
Lifting the driving age to 18
Red light cameras
NPR systems to identify rego/warrant infringements, wanted vehicles etc

It's made harder because of the insurance regime as well - in countries where it is compulsory (which I suspect is most places we would compare NZ with) it is a means to control what young people drive and to punish bad driving because speeding fines etc will push up your premiums. A lot. Absent that mechanism for concentrating the driver's mind via their wallet annually, it gets harder.

hio77

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#2209159 1-Apr-2019 23:57

Geektastic:

Compulsory lessons before you can take a test
Power/weight ratio restrictions on cars for new drivers
More speed cameras
Higher infringement penalties
Lifting the driving age to 18
Red light cameras
NPR systems to identify rego/warrant infringements, wanted vehicles etc

Does things like increasing fines and driving age really change much though?

Most of these all add up to simply more fines, which really does nothing for taking a tards off the road that are often the dangerous driver.. they just avoid those areas.

maybe we should ban all cars? /s

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mattwnz

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#2209161 2-Apr-2019 00:11

Not sure how much driving tests affect the road toll, as much of the bad driving is based around speeding, lack of patience and lack of courtesy. So many people want to overtake these days, and I often see people doing it on yellow lines. Also a lot of our roads are not good, and we also sometimes have tourists that can end up driving on the wrong side of the road. Maybe reducing the speed on many of the roads may help, I had read for example that SH2 in the Wairarapa may go down to 80km/hr, which may not be a bad thing, as they seem to have heaps of crashes over there and they are always reporting on crashes. Infact just happened to check their paper just now to see if my hunch was right, and main page has a story about a crash causing injuries tonight in Masterton https://times-age.co.nz/

PhantomNVD

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#2209165 2-Apr-2019 01:00

Europe is all over this already:

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/big-brother-incar-monitoring-on-the-way-for-europe/news-story/a3bb97ef7bd86611c0f922e0e71c4ce2

Wellingtondave

159 posts

Master Geek

#2209166 2-Apr-2019 01:06

hio77:

Geektastic:

Compulsory lessons before you can take a test
Power/weight ratio restrictions on cars for new drivers
More speed cameras
Higher infringement penalties
Lifting the driving age to 18
Red light cameras
NPR systems to identify rego/warrant infringements, wanted vehicles etc

Does things like increasing fines and driving age really change much though?

Most of these all add up to simply more fines, which really does nothing for taking a tards off the road that are often the dangerous driver.. they just avoid those areas.

maybe we should ban all cars? /s

Whoosh.... 50 persons are tragically killed..... but let's continual as usual. Week upon week upon week.

michaelmurfy

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#2209168 2-Apr-2019 01:12

Moved to politics...

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Aredwood

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#2209170 2-Apr-2019 02:39

Need compulsory practical testing when you renew your driver's license. Currently you can get your full license as a teenager, then no more practical tests needed for the next 50 years or so.

And there are lots of people on the roads who got their full license. When the only practical test, was driving around the block in a quiet small town.

Look at how many crashes happen in supermarket car parks, and during rush hour traffic. Even if 20km/Hr was the highest speed limit, crashes would still happen. And lots more crashes including deaths occur when the roads are wet. Which demonstrates that there are way too many people on the roads. Who dont know how to adjust their speed, following distance, and lots of other factors about their driving. To match the wet road conditions. And how many people would be aware of the different handling capabilities of various different cars? Especially on wet roads?

And there are also poor quality roads. EG the Dome Valley north of Auckland. That part of SH1 has chip seal on it. And most of it is polished smooth, due to the tar melting and appearing on the surface due to summer heat. That road is like driving on ice, when it is wet.

And what is with maintaining state highways as either 1 lane each way, narrow and twisty roads. Or upgrading them to full motorway standard at massive expense? Every other country is able to build highways that are 2 lanes each way.

And property prices also affect the road toll. As lots more people are now having to move much further away from their workplace. To try and avoid high rents and house prices. Lots more traffic on rural roads that were never designed for such traffic. And since more of those people will be commuting long distances, more risk of fatigue crashes.

Also, the road toll is not comparable to what happened in Christchurch. As the Christchurch terrorist attacks were premeditated. While the worst road accident (that I know about) was 10 people killed when a bus failed to take a corner. And went over a cliff. And even if that bus driver had done something stupid, that crash is unlikely to be premeditated.

And if we are going to start comparing the road toll to other things that kill and injure people. How about tobacco, alcohol, overdoses on drugs like Paracetamol, and various prescription drugs. And how about deaths from various infections, due to people not getting vaccinated? And then there are deaths from suicide.

Reason I mentioned the above. If the road toll is successfully halved, that would be approximately 150 less people killed per year. If the spending needed to achieve that, was spent elsewhere. Would that stop even more people from getting killed?

Why do we allow people to smoke tobacco? Apart from the benefit to the government from lower pension costs.

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gzt

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#2209177 2-Apr-2019 06:15

Without crash type analysis statistics it's all guessing.

GV27

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#2209185 2-Apr-2019 07:24

Power to weight ratios are not the panacea that some people want to make them out to be.

tdgeek

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#2209248 2-Apr-2019 08:52

Not sure of the relevance of the PM being mentioned in the thread title.

Its probably fine as it is, as no one wants more rules, more fines, and so on. By deduction, its probably fine on that basis.

Does the Police and NZTA evaluate the cause of every accident, and document that? That information must be there somewhere. That's where the answer is. Get a Psychologist to tell us what will work, and set penalties from there. It should actually be quite simple

Fred99

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#2209274 2-Apr-2019 09:44

tdgeek:

Not sure of the relevance of the PM being mentioned in the thread title.

Its probably fine as it is, as no one wants more rules, more fines, and so on. By deduction, its probably fine on that basis.

Does the Police and NZTA evaluate the cause of every accident, and document that? That information must be there somewhere. That's where the answer is. Get a Psychologist to tell us what will work, and set penalties from there. It should actually be quite simple

Oh dear - compulsory psych testing before you get on the road? 😊

IMO most of the calls for increasingly difficult driver training and regular (re)assessment are probably futile - it's getting the wrong answer by asking the wrong question.

The most basic analysis of cause of most injury/fatal accidents isn't lack of driver knowledge about road rules. It's deliberate breaking of well known rules and laws, combined with poor risk assessment (the "it won't happen to me" attitude which equally applies to the 20% of the population who smoke - despite the blindingly obvious).

Attitudes aren't helped by the oft-repeated claims that fines are "revenue gathering".

General contempt for laws relating to driving seems to be socially acceptable. Speeding "a bit" is okay, apparently. Stealing "a bit" isn't. Go figure.

tdgeek

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#2209278 2-Apr-2019 10:02

Fred99:

tdgeek:

Not sure of the relevance of the PM being mentioned in the thread title.

Its probably fine as it is, as no one wants more rules, more fines, and so on. By deduction, its probably fine on that basis.

Does the Police and NZTA evaluate the cause of every accident, and document that? That information must be there somewhere. That's where the answer is. Get a Psychologist to tell us what will work, and set penalties from there. It should actually be quite simple

Oh dear - compulsory psych testing before you get on the road? 😊

IMO most of the calls for increasingly difficult driver training and regular (re)assessment are probably futile - it's getting the wrong answer by asking the wrong question.

The most basic analysis of cause of most injury/fatal accidents isn't lack of driver knowledge about road rules. It's deliberate breaking of well known rules and laws, combined with poor risk assessment (the "it won't happen to me" attitude which equally applies to the 20% of the population who smoke - despite the blindingly obvious).

Attitudes aren't helped by the oft-repeated claims that fines are "revenue gathering".

General contempt for laws relating to driving seems to be socially acceptable. Speeding "a bit" is okay, apparently. Stealing "a bit" isn't. Go figure.

I never said "compulsory psych testing " . The rest of your post I agree with 100%. When someone drinks, speeds, runs a red light, etc etc etc, they do so as low odds of being caught. Now, if we added more speed cameras, red light cameras, its complaint heaven. Revenue gathering heaven.

A psychologist can tell us what will work. Fines? Disqualified for a period? Confiscate the vehicle? Forfeit the vehicle? All of those could work, but they would seem very harsh, but in fact, what is harsh is the ignoring road rules and laws that invariably cause an accident and injury and death.

If its a 50k area, up to 55k is a $30 fine. To 60k is a $50 fine, over 60k is a $500 instant fine, pay now, or hand in the vehicle. Right now

The penalties dont fit the crime, because its worth our while to flout them, so lets make them scary and hurtful, make it not worthwhile flouting

shk292

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#2209279 2-Apr-2019 10:07

Interesting listening to the Taupo traffic police rep on the radio this morning. The 5-fatality crash involved 6 people in a 5-seat vehicle, none of whom were wearing seatbelts. Dry road, apparently excessive speed not identified as a factor, no other vehicles involved.

Difficult to stop stupid people doing stupid things, and I'm far from convinced that fining non-stupid people for marginal speed infractions is the answer.

I agree that compulsory insurance and NPR enforcement of insurance, rego and WOF would be a good start.

tdgeek

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#2209285 2-Apr-2019 10:20

shk292:

Interesting listening to the Taupo traffic police rep on the radio this morning. The 5-fatality crash involved 6 people in a 5-seat vehicle, none of whom were wearing seatbelts. Dry road, apparently excessive speed not identified as a factor, no other vehicles involved.

Difficult to stop stupid people doing stupid things, and I'm far from convinced that fining non-stupid people for marginal speed infractions is the answer.

I agree that compulsory insurance and NPR enforcement of insurance, rego and WOF would be a good start.

What caused that accident?

NPR?

Compulsory insurance won't stop bad driving, neither will efforts on marginal speed infringements, my suggestion was exceeding minor

As I see it, there is no motivation to drive well, and within the rules. Driving is easy. We drive very slow, we have a huge amount of time to evaluate whats ahead, we can act as though every other driver is an idiot, as I do. But still we drive into trees, other cars and other people

shk292

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#2209306 2-Apr-2019 10:48

tdgeek:

What caused that accident?

NPR?

Compulsory insurance won't stop bad driving, neither will efforts on marginal speed infringements, my suggestion was exceeding minor

As I see it, there is no motivation to drive well, and within the rules. Driving is easy. We drive very slow, we have a huge amount of time to evaluate whats ahead, we can act as though every other driver is an idiot, as I do. But still we drive into trees, other cars and other people

Cause not known at present. But the combination of compulsory insurance and NPR enforcement would remove a lot of the unsafe vehicles and unsafe driver-vehicle combinations that exist on our roads.

As I said, you can't stop stupid people doing stupid things. We almost need two road-tolls, one for stupid people (driving without seat belts, DUI of alcohol or drugs) and one for the rest. No point in stressing about the stupid ones because no amount of legislation is going to stop them

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