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freitasm

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#290107 21-Oct-2021 12:01
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Dosh was launched last week and I got the app installed - haven't used it yet though. Below a press release they've sent yesterday:

 

 

Businesses doing it tough during Covid-19 have welcomed the launch of Dosh - a new way to be paid via a phone app.

 

Launched last week, Dosh has been quickly adopted by retailers eager to provide an instant, contactless payment option – and avoid costly merchant fees.

 

“With Dosh it’s simple - I save money and it is easy to set up. It also helps with keeping my staff and customers safe via contactless payments, especially with restricted trading in Covid times,” says Phillip Ashworth, owner of Liquorland outlet in Auckland.

 

Dosh for Business is easy, safe, and available to anyone with a New Zealand-registered business. In just one week merchants across industries as diverse as florists, liquor stores, cafes and fitness centres have registered with Dosh.

 

“Dosh is the breakthrough in banking that consumers and small business owners have been waiting for,” says Shane Marsh, co-founder of Dosh. Despite huge popularity overseas, digital wallets and instant payment apps have not been available to New Zealanders.

 

Dosh allows users to instantly pay or be paid for transactions under $500. Currently users can upload up to $1000 onto their dosh wallet and pay businesses via a QR code or via the app. These maximum values will be increased as demand required it. The payment option is perfect for retailers, mobile tradespeople, food delivery and events business.

 

For any business that needs instant, small payments in a person-to-person environment – Dosh is perfect combination of instant, contactless and safe.

 

Dosh works with all the major banks including BNZ, ASB, Westpac, ANZ, TSB and Kiwibank, and is a registered Financial Services provider, overseen by the Department of Internal Affairs.

 

“Dosh removes a whole world of pain from banking,” says co-founder James McEniery. “Payments are instant - so no more waiting a day or two to see if your funds have cleared. It’s easy - no need to try and remember your 16 digit bank account number or mobile numbers. And it’s safe - you see the money in your account instantly and can transfer it back to your NZ bank account whenever you like.”
 
It’s also cheaper for businesses. “Merchant fees are a major source of frustration for business owners. Dosh significantly reduces the cost of merchant payments and provides secure, instant results for hardworking Kiwi businesses,” he says.

 

Dosh is the creation of friends Shane Marsh and James McEniery, returning ex-pat Kiwis who had grown used to using overseas payment apps like Venmo or Paylah. Returning to New Zealand in 2020 they saw that no such payment apps existed so took the opportunity to launch Dosh. James has a background in sales & marketing and Shane was a digital payments expert for a large Australian-owned bank.

 

You can register for a Dosh Business account online at www.dosh.nz. Consumers can also download the app from Google Play or App store.

 





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Gurezaemon
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  #2798733 21-Oct-2021 12:24
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Interesting - I've just signed up. Pretty painless. It will be interesting to see if this gets any sort of traction so that it becomes as ubiquitous as Venmo, etc.

 

The article above doesn't make it that clear, but it is also targeting payments between individuals, which makes it great for splitting a bill, etc.





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michaelmurfy
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  #2798764 21-Oct-2021 13:10
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Activated, went to look at the topup flow and was directed to this:

 

 

Now deactivated and emailed asking them to delete all personal information from their servers and giving them feedback this is not secure. You're directed towards a topup flow which is doing a man in the middle to your internet banking with no way of verifying the page due to it being in a full-screen webview window. There is also no way of topping up manually or with a credit / debit card.

 

These account scrapers are fully against every banks internet banking terms and conditions, they're also putting people at further risk with it being a full-screen webview window because how can you possibly verify it has not been tampered with?





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  #2798768 21-Oct-2021 13:18
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“ To top up your account Dosh has selected Windcave, New Zealand’s most established payment gateway provider. Windcave requires your bank username and password to conduct the top up and will not retain this information. We ask you to enter your details each time you use this service to avoid risks of a third party retaining your sensitive bank information.”

Yeaaaahhh nahhh




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itxtme
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  #2798771 21-Oct-2021 13:23
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michaelmurfy:

 

Now deactivated and emailed asking them to delete all personal information from their servers and giving them feedback this is not secure. You're directed towards a topup flow which is doing a man in the middle to your internet banking with no way of verifying the page due to it being in a full-screen webview window. There is also no way of topping up manually or with a credit / debit card.

 

These account scrapers are fully against every banks internet banking terms and conditions, they're also putting people at further risk with it being a full-screen webview window because how can you possibly verify it has not been tampered with?

 

 

I feel like every time you post one of these examples I see and comment, so let me first say - nothing against you or who you work for! But, NZ has this perfect storm of high terminations rates, and a failure to actually supply open banking in any meaningful way, in any meaningful timeline [close to 5 years in the making??].  That is why these methods exist - no other reason. Agreed its not ideal from a security perspective, but equally how many people even take notice of a redirection to windcave when the bar is visible?  Lets just be more open, then windcaves solution could be gone!


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  #2798779 21-Oct-2021 13:45
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itxtme:

 

I feel like every time you post one of these examples I see and comment, so let me first say - nothing against you or who you work for! But, NZ has this perfect storm of high terminations rates, and a failure to actually supply open banking in any meaningful way, in any meaningful timeline [close to 5 years in the making??].  That is why these methods exist - no other reason. Agreed its not ideal from a security perspective, but equally how many people even take notice of a redirection to windcave when the bar is visible?  Lets just be more open, then windcaves solution could be gone!

 

 

They can take a bank deposit like all other retailers etc do, This is inexcusable and I dont see why windcave are allowed to do this while also operating a legitimate payment gateway. banks should be cutting them off for this.

 

Beyond that, they are accessing a system they are not authorized to access so should be up on charges for that.





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  #2798785 21-Oct-2021 13:54
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Yea I feel like these account scraping system only exist because the banks (and credit card companies) have their heads too far up their asses to realise their transaction and account fees for credit cards is just too high. It's the same mentality that lets them justify $500/month for an FTP facility for uploading/downloading direct debit information. Don't try and tell me FTP access is more secure than an API with proper authentication.

 

Thanks neoliberalism.


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  #2798787 21-Oct-2021 13:57
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Yeah nah mate this ain't gonna fly




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freitasm

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  #2798816 21-Oct-2021 14:37
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Right. I didn't go into topup but that is a no, no. Removing the account now.





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michaelmurfy
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  #2798834 21-Oct-2021 15:38
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itxtme:

 

I feel like every time you post one of these examples I see and comment, so let me first say - nothing against you or who you work for! But, NZ has this perfect storm of high terminations rates, and a failure to actually supply open banking in any meaningful way, in any meaningful timeline [close to 5 years in the making??].  That is why these methods exist - no other reason. Agreed its not ideal from a security perspective, but equally how many people even take notice of a redirection to windcave when the bar is visible?  Lets just be more open, then windcaves solution could be gone!

 

I do fully agree with you. I know Open Banking will sort all this out but Open Banking is also a complex beast with the Aussie banks especially focused on the BS11 Outsourcing Policy at the same time.

 

The big problem I have is I've seen these screen scrapers attempt to simulate a customer as close as possible (including browser headers, and in some cases even attempting to use domestic IP addresses) in order to get past the banks WAF platform then they'll go in parts of Internet Banking they have no reason to go into - like, POLi for example was at one point downloading statements from customers.

 

It is free (for you) and cheap as chips to the business but at the end of the day you're actually paying with your privacy as many of these screen scrapers are collecting sensitive information along with waiving any chances of being protected from fraud in the future as your bank will know, and use this as an excuse to not cover you as you've knowingly shared your internet banking login details. Also many of these screen scrapers do ask you to turn off 2FA.

 

Anyway - bank transfers are actually rather quick in NZ often taking as little as 15mins + many banks have opted into mobile payments also. We've actually got it good in NZ really as banks do work together yet in Aussie and the US as an example all banks are competitive to one another and will often refuse to come up with an agreement which is why these services exist. I know for the longest time with one AU bank it would take 24hrs to do a transfer between your own accounts - to another bank it can be ~2 days depending where it is going also!





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Gurezaemon
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  #2798843 21-Oct-2021 16:03
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Mailed - this is what I got back.

 


Thanks for the email and feedback.
We will be releasing the manual internet banking transfer option in the next few weeks.

We are also looking at other options including Online Eftpos for top up. Also investigating an e-voucher partnership too.

Thanks again for reaching out.
Regards Dosh





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Gurezaemon
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  #2884382 10-Mar-2022 13:28
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Update - I've just received a mail from the company saying they've now enabled a regular bank transfer option for topups, which removes the need for WindCave with it's various security concerns.





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  #2884400 10-Mar-2022 14:06
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Still don't see the point in this app here. Its not like its hard to pay people directly and you cant use the payment in dosh for anything so the immediate nature of the internal transfer within dosh is immaterial.

 

 

 

 





Richard rich.ms

freitasm

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  #2884427 10-Mar-2022 14:38
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richms:

 

Still don't see the point in this app here. Its not like its hard to pay people directly and you cant use the payment in dosh for anything so the immediate nature of the internal transfer within dosh is immaterial.

 

 

It's like Venmo really but we don't seem to have this need. Bank payments clear very quickly in New Zealand and the money is available for everything, not only in-app transfers.





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  #2884435 10-Mar-2022 14:53
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They tried to entice people (a few weeks back) by giving them $10 if they downloaded the app and created an account:

 

"Easiest way to make $10? Download Dosh by 28th Feb and we'll send you a tenner to get you started."

 

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  #2884494 10-Mar-2022 16:39
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Perhaps they intend to extend the app to do google pay/apple pay, or provide a card like wise.com do, or perhaps let people pay on checkout with it if a website chooses to offer it like afterpay etc.

 

But IMO they could be decimated once another place with an existing customer base starts to offer customer to customer payments, like afterpay, zip, or any of the other less popular pay later providers.

 

 





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