Upgrade 1080p TV/bluray to 4K

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › Upgrade 1080p TV/bluray to 4K - advice required

Chrisblobster

24 posts

Geek

#293661 6-Feb-2022 12:00

Hi all, I'm looking to upgrade my home theatre to 4K and am seeking some advice or observations you can offer. I have a 2011 55" Samsung Series 6 3D TV as the centre of a home theatre system comprised of the TV, a Pioneer VSX-521K amp/receiver receiving/switching all the inputs, a Sony 3D Bluray, and a SFF PC with a Geforce GTX1650 card for Steam gaming/general computing/media centre duties. Wharfedale Diamond 9's provide the sound (9.5 fronts, 9.5CS centre, 9.1 rears, and SW150 sub).

I'm looking to, at a minimum, replace the TV and Bluray player - the old 55" 3D TV will be replaced with a 4K 65" high end LED or entry level OLED, and the old 3D bluray with a 4K UltraHD player. I'm giving up on 3D, despite having a large library of 3D BD disks - greedy profiteering TV manufacturers should be flogged and burned alive in public as far as I'm concerned, for conspiring to end 3D TV in the home, but it appears the industry is digging it's toes in about keeping 3D out of the home, despite continued releases of 3D content in cinemas.

My intention is to keep the Pioneer VSX-521K and Wharfedale combo, as that sounds more than good enough for me, but obviously the Pioneer is only capable of 1080p input switching and passthrough. To get around that limitation with 4K content I am looking to use the new 4K TV as a "receiver", and output digital audio via optical from the 4K TV to the Pioneer.

One question I have is has anyone tried this so they didn't have to fork out for a complete end-to-end 4K system? It is critical to me that video remains in sync with audio, and I'm wary that passing audio from the TV to the Av receiver could introduce processing latency meaning sound is delayed.

Please let me know your experiences, opinions, and anything you did to correct any audio latency if any.

Cheers, Chris W, Chch

nitro

658 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2862512 6-Feb-2022 13:34

a lot of (most?) TVs, won't output surround sound from an external source, e.g. blu-ray player, on to a receiver via the optical output. even if you find one that does, i don't think you can get true-hd or dts-hd that way.

one option is to get a 4k bdp with 2 hdmi outputs - one to tv and the other to your receiver.

i also bought into the 3d wave, but it's really dead now.

rugrat

3108 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2862522 6-Feb-2022 13:54

Past LG TV’s I’ve had, have output 5.1 no problem over optical external source.

Current one I’ve only used HDMI ARC.

Audio and video sync was fine, the only time I had any sync issues was if I connected sound directly to receiver, and video to TV.

I am wondering if a VR set would be able to play the 3D content so hanging onto my 3D Blu-rays for now.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#2862562 6-Feb-2022 15:49

Some TV's can now send surround sound formats down ARC / eARC / optical to an AVR or compatible sound bar.

However there is still no definitive list of these TV's OR a guarantee that your new TV and the Pioneer will work well with ARC. eARC is currently out of the question as your Pioneer will not handle the new iteration of ARC.

SJB

2945 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2862805 6-Feb-2022 21:03

I can't get DD 5.1 from the optical output on my LG A1. Tried everything, Googled everything but no luck.

Only ever got stereo so route the audio direct from my PC source to the AVR now.

Chrisblobster

24 posts

Geek

#2862865 6-Feb-2022 22:57

Dunnersfella:

Some TV's can now send surround sound formats down ARC / eARC / optical to an AVR or compatible sound bar.

However there is still no definitive list of these TV's OR a guarantee that your new TV and the Pioneer will work well with ARC. eARC is currently out of the question as your Pioneer will not handle the new iteration of ARC.

Thanks for reply - it is well confusing trying to understand rationale from the TV manufacturers about how eARC etc work. The way I look at it my current system plays lovely sounding Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio, accompanying a nice clean 1080p video/3D video stream, along a measly HDMI 1.4a cable, and yet to give me DTS-HD MA, or Dolby TrueHD audio (just audio, not video as well) from the 4K TV back to the receiver, HDMI 2.1 is required, does not actually compute to me.

If AV receivers require HDMI 2.1 to receive eARC, then they're probably quite new and would probably support 4K video etc already, thereby negating the need for eARC in the first place... sounds like it is manufacturers bleeding us dry for every pound of flesh they can cut from us.

Chris, Chch 🙄

Chrisblobster

24 posts

Geek

#2862868 6-Feb-2022 23:14

SJB:

I can't get DD 5.1 from the optical output on my LG A1. Tried everything, Googled everything but no luck.

Only ever got stereo so route the audio direct from my PC source to the AVR now.

I'm beginning to see that the manufacturers are doing some spiteful nasty greedy stuff to make it nearly impossible for those who want to upgrade to 4K, to do it to a reasonable budget. The mere idea that I can transmit Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA plus 1080p or 1080p 3D together over a lowly HDMI 1.4a cable, but would not be able to transmit Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA audio alone from an eARC HDMI 2.1 port on a new TV back to an older receiver (because the receiver doesn't have HDMI 2.1), is just downright infuriating - honestly, if a receiver has HDMI 2.1, then it is probably new enough that it can ALREADY support 4K. I can score a basic LED 65" 4K Phillips with OK reviews for about $1150, or a entry level OLED for about $3000, but to retain the lovely DTS-HD Master Audio I'm used to hearing from my 1080p Bluray or Bluray 3D collection, it appears I will need to spend possibly double what I had initially thought I could get away with just so I don't take a major step backwards in the quality of audio my system plays.

Throwing molotovs through the executive office windows of all the major TV makers, DID just cross my mind... 🤬

Chris, Chch 🤨

rugrat

3108 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2862871 7-Feb-2022 00:17

SJB:

I can't get DD 5.1 from the optical output on my LG A1. Tried everything, Googled everything but no luck.

Only ever got stereo so route the audio direct from my PC source to the AVR now.

on the TV under sound settings I have Internal TV Speaker, Optical, HDMI ARC.

I have the ARC one set, you would select optical.

Then below this is Digital Sound Out. This is the sound output to transfer to an external device. It needs to be set to Auto.

PCM setting only gives 2 channel audio as you are describing.

Go to sound settings, then click on sound out (yours should be optical) and it gives you the extra options.

It maybe that your PC is not doing 5.1 over the HDMI cable to the TV.

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SJB

2945 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2863197 7-Feb-2022 21:35

rugrat:

on the TV under sound settings I have Internal TV Speaker, Optical, HDMI ARC.

I have the ARC one set, you would select optical.

Then below this is Digital Sound Out. This is the sound output to transfer to an external device. It needs to be set to Auto.

PCM setting only gives 2 channel audio as you are describing.

Go to sound settings, then click on sound out (yours should be optical) and it gives you the extra options.

It maybe that your PC is not doing 5.1 over the HDMI cable to the TV.

Checked all those settings and they look OK. I don't have PCM on the sound settings. They are MPEG/DD/DD Plus/HE-AAC/Auto and I use Auto.

The PC HDMI out is from an NVidia card and the control panel for the card is set for DD 5.1 out so I'm assuming the PC is sending 5.1

It's a shame there is no display on the TV for showing what format audio it is receiving.

Dingbatt

6760 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2863301 8-Feb-2022 06:55

In a HT setup the effect is 80% visual and 20% audio (imo) and that is from someone who has an Atmos system.
Even if you have to do an incremental upgrade, I would be getting as good a TV as you can first. Then see what the 4K streaming services are like on it. Understanding that the audio they can output to a receiver will always be inferior to a Blu-ray but in a lot of cases adequate for what you are watching.
I have all but given up on Blu-ray discs now. Unless it is an extra special title I know I'll watch multiple times and has an Atmos audio track that really makes a difference. So to that end I bought the cheapest spinner that had the playing capabilities and put the difference into an AppleTV4K. As for 3D, I have a set of glasses for each family member. Only one packet has ever been opened. That was for me to try it. Never been used to watch a movie.
Before upgrading the Blu-ray player though, I think you would be better to get an adequate receiver capable of all the audio formats, with 4k upscale and ARC (or eARC). Otherwise you will be forever doing workarounds and compromises. I say adequate because I have spent a fortune on receivers in the past only for their capabilities and connections to be rendered obsolete by new standards within a year or two.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

rugrat

3108 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2863312 8-Feb-2022 07:57

SJB:

Checked all those settings and they look OK. I don't have PCM on the sound settings. They are MPEG/DD/DD Plus/HE-AAC/Auto and I use Auto.

The PC HDMI out is from an NVidia card and the control panel for the card is set for DD 5.1 out so I'm assuming the PC is sending 5.1

It's a shame there is no display on the TV for showing what format audio it is receiving.

You click the remote while video is playing, top left where it has the hdmi port you are using, or device name if named, click on that. It then gives picture and sound format TV is receiving.

I don’t have your model TV but an older one, have had several LG’s and find them similar on menus. Yes, I get the options you mentioned, but there is another menu, where the options are only auto or pcm. Even with DD set on the one you mentioned it will only do two channel audio if the other menu is set to PCM.

To get to it you have to click on the optical output setting as though you are going to change the output method. Then below the output methods is the two option of pcm or auto.

Dingbatt: Just me personally I think going from to 2 channel to 5.1 is a big difference. My receiver can do atmos, but I only have 5.1 speaker set up as I’m not sure how much greater the enjoyment it would make. Action and horror types makes a big difference having 5.1, as the scenes that nearly have me jumping out of my seat wouldn’t without 5.1. Think it’s the sudden increase in loudness.

I’d rather watch HD with 5.1, then 4K with two channel.

Paul1977

5058 posts

Uber Geek

#2863336 8-Feb-2022 09:08

rugrat:

I’d rather watch HD with 5.1, then 4K with two channel.

On a 65" at a typical viewing distance lot of people couldn't distinguish between HD and 4K. I say typical, because most people have their TVs further away than what is considered optimal.

But the real benefit of 4K is that it generally goes hand-in-hand with HDR or Dolby Vision, and that's where you see the big difference. I'd rather watch 1080p SDR 5.1 than 4K SDR stereo, but I'd pick 4k HDR/Dolby Vision stereo over 1080p SDR 5.1 all day long.

ARIKIP

233 posts

Master Geek

#2863462 8-Feb-2022 11:29

Your Pioneer Receiver and Wharfedales will be fine. Most decent 4K UHD Players have dual HDMI Outs. I would feed video directly to the TV via HDMI and Audio to the Pioneer vis HDMI. That way you still get Dolby True HD etc from disc and a 4K/HDR image on the TV. I would use the ARC/eARC HDMI output on the New TV to the ARC in/out on the Pioneer. This way you will still at least get Dolby Digital etc from your new TVs built in streaming apps. You may be able to get a 4K compatible second hand receiver for a reasonable price on Trademe now and again for around $500ish which may even include Atmos/DTSX support if you want to go down that route. The last Decent 3D TV may have been the 6 series LG OLEDs from 2016.

Sony 77" A80J OLED, Integra 60.7, Panasonic UB820, Toshiba HD-XE1, Apple TV 4K, JBL L100T,JBL 18Ti, JBL L20T, Velodyne HGS15

ratsun81

508 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2863617 8-Feb-2022 15:09

One thing that ive not seen mentioned yet is that some TV's cant/dont support all the codecs which means if you are like me and use content from other sources, passthrough to your amplifier wont always work which makes using the new TV as a central point a nightmare as well.

The whole audio lag situation should be able to be fixed but best to make sure you google what the device you are looking to buy is capable of.

SJB

2945 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2863644 8-Feb-2022 15:53

rugrat:

You click the remote while video is playing, top left where it has the hdmi port you are using, or device name if named, click on that. It then gives picture and sound format TV is receiving.

I don’t have your model TV but an older one, have had several LG’s and find them similar on menus. Yes, I get the options you mentioned, but there is another menu, where the options are only auto or pcm. Even with DD set on the one you mentioned it will only do two channel audio if the other menu is set to PCM.

To get to it you have to click on the optical output setting as though you are going to change the output method. Then below the output methods is the two option of pcm or auto.

Thanks for the info on formats received by the TV. Seems it's getting PCM from the PC and on further investigation it is not straight forward to get DD5.1 out of the HDMI connector on the NVidia card.

Just for a test I installed Dolby Atmos support from the Microsoft store and tried a demo and sure enough the TV showed it was receiving Dolby Atmos. Unfortunately my AVR doesn't recognize Atmos so I can't go down that route and there was no DD5.1 support on the Microsoft Store. After some searching there are some fairly awkward methods to get it to work but lifes too short. All the audio formats I use including DD5.1 work out of my sound card so I am going to stick with that. The only downside is that I was thinking of changing the PC for an Intel NUC but I believe that only has HDMI out and I wouldn't be able to add a sound card so the NUC is a non-starter.

I don't think that menu you mention is available on my A1. If I click on Sound out I get a scrolling popup showing that I'm using optical out with an arrow at each end to choose another type of output. Clicking on the optical out while it is scrolling does nothing.