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441 posts

Ultimate Geek


#90588 24-Sep-2011 18:50
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Hi.

As a side thread from the  "Video stutter on DVB-T on Win7 Hauppauge HVR4400 & ATI Video card" one I started, I am having other issues that are unrelated.

When Media Centre scanned for channels on the two DVB-T (UHF) tuners, it automatically merged sources for each channel.  Here is where the strangeness began. BTW this was after a fresh install of win7.

1. Each merged channel contained 6 entries. 3 for each tuner. for each tuner there was one source at the correct frequency,  one at 166MHz high and one 166Mhz low. Two of the sources were automatically enabled but these were not always the two correct ones.
(These screen dumps were taken after merging the satellite source as well.)

 

 


2. After splitting the superfluous sources  from each channel and disabling them I am left with a channel list like this.
(I can hide them from the guide but I havn't found a way of deleting the superfluous channels)




3. I think as a consequence of the cocked up channel list and merged sources, I occasionally get recordings that are fragmented into parts. When this happens there is a warning in the windows event log EG the two for Dr Who: 

"Recording of Doctor Who began late on 22/09/2011 9:15:59 p.m. due to a temporary failure caused by either a system malfunction or a power loss and stopped early on 22/09/2011 9:16:01 p.m. due to a schedule change."
"Recording of Doctor Who began late on 22/09/2011 9:16:04 p.m. due to a temporary failure caused by either a system malfunction or a power loss and stopped on 22/09/2011 9:30:59 p.m."



I have read that the only way to sort this is to stop all the media centre processes and services, delete parts of the Ehome folder and let windows rebuild them. Then start again EG this guide at hack7mc
http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/09/clearing-guide-data-and-tuner-setup-from-windows-7-media-center.html

Any ideas on whether there is a way to manually edit the media centre channel database and prevent media centre stuffing it up?? 

Regards Allen.

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441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #525659 25-Sep-2011 22:26
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Looks like the multiple source problem is tied to the avermedia card.

I removed all Tuner/channel data from media centre following this. http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/09/clearing-guide-data-and-tuner-setup-from-windows-7-media-center.html.

If MC scans for the UHF Tuner on the Hauppague card only I get a single guide entry for each channel with each channel comprising  a single source. This is correct.

If MC scans for the UHF Tuner on the Avermedia card only I get a guide entry for each channel with each channel comprising 3 merged sources. Wrong! One at the correct frequency and one 166khz either side. I removed the UHF splitter and plugged directly into the card with the same results.

If MC scans both tuners, I get 6 merged sources. 3 for each card. Fubar!

The Avermedia card was transplanted from a secondhand HP win7 PC I bought for my sister. I think I'll dump the Avermedia card and try another hauppague card probably the dual tuner HVR2200? Can you buy a dual tuner PCIe Hauppague without another remote?.

Has anyone tried this http://1geek1tool.com/guidetool to manually edit and merge the guide data? It looks like it requires a donation to activate most of the features. If it works as advertised I might be able to manually sort out the mess that MC is making of sources and guide data. Might be worth the $5 before buying another tuner card.

Regards Allen.





29127 posts

Uber Geek

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Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #525674 26-Sep-2011 06:45
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A 166khz offset is used by a number of countries (incl the UK).


 
 
 
 


1705 posts

Uber Geek


  #525701 26-Sep-2011 09:56
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I get a very similar thing with my setup, but I am using HVR900 USB DVB-T tuners, and get 4 entries for the two tuners.  Two are the correct frequency and the other set are offset.  However I have had no problems and just ignore this in the guide/signal setup.

I have no problems recording and no problems with signal quality.

I re-ran my setup just last week (mucking around with VPN's and USA based Internet TV) and it's still exactly the same.

What happens if you just leave it as is? (besides the errors in the log....), does everything work ok?  Do you get signal problems?



441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #525723 26-Sep-2011 11:34
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timbosan:

What happens if you just leave it as is? (besides the errors in the log....), does everything work ok?  Do you get signal problems?


I have had issues with stuttering video/pixelation, the bulk of which I have resolved by swapping the ATI video card for an Nvidia. There is ongoing discussion on a different thread. http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=84&topicid=87095&page_no=10#525555

The issue I am trying to resolve here is the fragmenting of some recordings EG the Dr Who one in the initial post of this thread. Of which the event logs are a symptom.

I would like to tidy up the channels/merged sources and guide as best I can to eliminate the glitches that cause this recording fragmentation.

I believe that guidetool can let you manipulate everything but I would like to hear from someone who has successfully used it before paying a "Donation" to unlock it.

Regards Allen. 

29127 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #525729 26-Sep-2011 11:52
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Are others definately seeing offset frequencies, or duplicate channels because they are seeing both the primary and SFN MUX's?

In Auckland or Wellington for example you'll pick up duplicates of all the MUX's  depending on your location and setup. Official Freeview box's will deal with this and only map channels from the strongest MUX.
 



441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #525908 26-Sep-2011 17:28
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sbiddle: Are others definately seeing offset frequencies, or duplicate channels because they are seeing both the primary and SFN MUX's?

In Auckland or Wellington for example you'll pick up duplicates of all the MUX's  depending on your location and setup. Official Freeview box's will deal with this and only map channels from the strongest MUX.
 


I'm in New Plymouth seeing the Egmont transmitter only.

The Hauppague card is good, it's only the Avermedia card thats picking up offset frequencies when media centre scans channels.

If I test using this Hauppauge ScanChannelsBDA_UK tool, (see here)  both the Hauppague and Avermedia cards scan correctly. The Hauppauge is reporting 100% quality and the Avermedia card is reporting 90% quality. the Avermedia quality number doesn't change if I remove the antenna splitter and plug directly into it. I may get the ladder out and tweek the masthead amp levels and see if the number changes. When watching TV on the Avermedia I'm not seeing any obvious errors. If the 90% is accurate I think i'd see picture degradation?

Regards Allen.

Avermedia Tuner scan using ScanChannelsBDA_UK.exe 
________________________________________________________________________ 
1. Hauppauge WinTV 885 BDA Tuner/Demod
2. AVerMedia Cx23888 BDA Tuner/Demod
3. Exit
> 2

 


ScanChannelsBDA-UK
Version 2.8.1 (2009-10-28)

 

Scan All Frequencies Test Single Frequency Options

________________________ _________________________ _________________________

1. UK and Europe 6. Graphical 8. Turn Verbose Output
On
2. Australia
9. Lock Detection Mode
(Signal Locked !=0)

10. Exit

 

Make selection by typing the number [1 to 10] and pressing ENTER: 1
# Nothing found on 474000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 482000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 490000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 498000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 506000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 514000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 522000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 530000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 538000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 546000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 554000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found

 

============================================================================
# locked on 562000KHz, please wait for network information...

# Network Information...

Frequency of Parent Transmitter = 0kHz

Network/Region Name = Freeview
#Relay transmitter frequencies
#Network_1("Freeview ", 570000, 8, 1)
#Network_1("Freeview ", 562000, 8, 1)
#Network_1("Freeview ", 690000, 8, 1)
#Network_1("Freeview ", 714000, 8, 1)
#Network_1("Freeview ", 554000, 8, 1)
#Network_1("Freeview ", 706000, 8, 1)
#Network_1("Freeview ", 730000, 8, 1)
#Network_1("Freeview ", 698000, 8, 1)
#Network_1("Freeview ", 666000, 8, 1)


Channel Name LCN SID Vid Aud PMT
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TV3 , 3, 1300, 0, A410, 300 #


# Signal Strength = -1000
# Signal Quality = 90%

============================================================================


# Nothing found on 570000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found

 

============================================================================
# locked on 578000KHz, please wait for network information...

# Network Information...

Frequency of Parent Transmitter = 0kHz

Network/Region Name = Freeview
#Relay transmitter frequencies
#Network_2("Freeview ", 522000, 8, 1)
#Network_2("Freeview ", 690000, 8, 1)
#Network_2("Freeview ", 714000, 8, 1)
#Network_2("Freeview ", 586000, 8, 1)


Channel Name LCN SID Vid Aud PMT
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TV ONE , 1, 1200, 0, A421, 288 # Teletext=1010
TV2 , 2, 1201, 0, A422, 289 # Teletext=1010


# Signal Strength = -1000
# Signal Quality = 90%

============================================================================


# Nothing found on 586000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found

 

============================================================================
# locked on 594000KHz, please wait for network information...

# Network Information...

Frequency of Parent Transmitter = 0kHz

Network/Region Name = Freeview
#Relay transmitter frequencies
#Network_3("Freeview ", 666000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 626000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 706000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 682000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 642000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 650000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 778000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 762000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 730000, 8, 1)
#Network_3("Freeview ", 602000, 8, 1)


Channel Name LCN SID Vid Aud PMT
-------------------------------------------------------------------


# Signal Strength = -1000
# Signal Quality = 90%

============================================================================


# Nothing found on 602000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 610000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 618000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 626000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 634000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 642000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 650000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 658000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 666000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 674000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 682000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 690000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 698000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 706000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 714000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 722000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 730000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 738000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 746000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 754000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 762000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 770000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 778000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 786000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 794000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 802000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 810000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 818000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 826000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 834000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 842000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found
# Nothing found on 850000kHz, +166kHz, -166kHz, Nothing found





441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #526767 28-Sep-2011 14:14
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AllenG:
The Hauppague card is good, it's only the Avermedia card thats picking up offset frequencies when media centre scans channels.

Ripped out the Avermedia tuner and replaced it with a Hauppauge HVR2210. Now have HVR4400 & HVR2210. (3 x UHF & 1 x Sat tuners. (BTW the HVR2210 came with remote, IR receiver/blaster, low profile and full height brackets, component video input and is cheaper then the HVR2200.) 

Deleted media centre database and rescanned with media centre. I now correctly finds and merges 1 source for each UHF tuner. No offset frequencies were added, Yay!

I've scanned in the missing Optus D1 transponder and SBS, Nine etc, and merged the sat sources with UHF making the Sat the 4th priority.

This has definitely solved the superfluous source issue. Time will tell whether the fragmented recordings issue is solved. I'll keep you posted.

Scanning with the hauppauge tool now gives 100% quality on all 3 UHF tuners

Regards Allen. 

 
 
 
 




441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #527641 30-Sep-2011 12:35
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AllenG: 
This has definitely solved the superfluous source issue. Time will tell whether the fragmented recordings issue is solved. I'll keep you posted.
Regards Allen. 


Media centre has behaved it's self since rescanning with the two Hauppauge cards. until last night.

Very strange, Recording of Dr Who on Prime last night was split in two again. (It was Dr who that played up last time)

Windows Event log...
08:39:36 pm Recording of Doctor Who began as scheduled on 29/09/2011 8:28:02 p.m. and stopped early on 29/09/2011 8:39:36 p.m. due to a schedule change. 
08:39:39 pm Recording of Doctor Who began as scheduled on 29/09/2011 8:39:38 p.m. while the program was already in progress. 

What schedule change? I am using the Satellite EPG data for all channels.

Anyone else had this issue and solved it?

By the Way overlapping recordings Futurama on Four (20:28 to 21:10), Big Bang Theory on Go (20:28 to 2110), Rove LA on Three (2058 to 2210) , Torchwood on Prime (2158 to 2210)  and later Fringe on TV One (2228 to 2345) recorded OK on other tuners.

Regards Allen 



441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #528990 4-Oct-2011 12:42
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AllenG: 
Very strange, Recording of Dr Who on Prime last night was split in two again. (It was Dr who that played up last time)
Regards Allen 


Fragmented recording occurred again yesterday afternnon on Prime. Nothing else scheduled at the time.  

Recording of Mythbusters began as scheduled on 3/10/2011 1:03:01 p.m. and stopped early on 3/10/2011 2:02:20 p.m. due to a schedule change. 

Recording of Mythbusters began as scheduled on 3/10/2011 2:02:22 p.m. while the program was already in progress.

Recording of Mythbusters began late on 3/10/2011 2:02:22 p.m. due to a temporary failure caused by either a system malfunction or a power loss and stopped on 3/10/2011 2:15:08 p.m.. 

Anyone else having problems with Prime? Maybe the next/now timestamp is out of synch with the 7 day sat EPG? Daylight saving errors?

I'll schedule something today and watch the EPG times closely. 

Regards Allen. 

7 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #531663 10-Oct-2011 20:50
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Hi Allen

Just stumbled on your post. And only minutes before, this post: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-tv/media-center-guide-keeps-losing-clear-qam-channels/f650a689-b7f1-4382-ac3a-4d9ddcbe75d3 

I have exactly the same problem - many recordings are partial and stop due to a "schedule change", others begin late due to a "temporary failure caused by either a system malfunction or a power loss". Whatever!

I only have a Hauppauge HVR2200 I think and one of their PCI DVB-S cards... never had that duplicate MUX thing. Interested in how you get Nine thoughl, I can only get SBS1/2 on my 60cm dish / single LNB.

Anyway I'm gonna try that fix tonight, will let you know how it goes!

Matt



441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #531703 10-Oct-2011 22:04
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Hi Matt. I'll have a look cheers.
I have a 90cm dish on a Moteck dish mover. It hasn't moved off D1 for a long time now though. Not much of interest on other ku band sats last time I looked unless you want religious content.

Removing the Avermedia card and having both cards as Hauppauge has sorted the duplicate MUX issue for me.
Hsuppauhe HVR4400 UHF/Sat, HVR2210 dual UHF

The error messages you have are exactly the same. Also about once a week I get "Media Centre has experienced a problem and needs to restart" After restarting I get a message saying that "Guide data has been recovered" or similar then "Check your scheduled programs" or similar.
When this happens I end up with the original channel set up before I merged tuners and rearranged channel numbers etc. Also the guide data and scheduled programs are all empty.

If I copy the previous database eg "c:\programdata\microsoft\ehome\mcepg2-1.db" and folder of the same name  and replace the new one that media centre created after the "Recovery" I get the guide data and schedule back as it was. Not ideal but gets things going again for about a week.

Will be nice to fix properly. I've added the PeriodicScanEnabled dword to the registry. I'll reboot after tonights recordings finish and post back when I next have a glitch (or not). I suspect it may fix the guide data being lost but maybe not the fragmented recordings. Time will tell.

Regards Allen.

148 posts

Master Geek


  #532054 11-Oct-2011 18:34

I used to have a few recording issues with EIT EPG data from the satellite, just like the issues you are having, but it said the recording failure was due to a schedule change. So I removed my nova s plus sat card, switched to mheg collection and the recording is rock solid now.

I just have two dvb-t tuners now (nova t 500, hvr-2200). I get multiple entries as well from these though which doesn't affect my recordings.



441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #532080 11-Oct-2011 20:14
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mthand: 
I just have two dvb-t tuners now (nova t 500, hvr-2200). I get multiple entries as well from these though which doesn't affect my recordings.


Hi mthand. What do you mean by "I get multiple entries as well"? Multiple entries for some channels in the EPG, or multiple merged sources in a channel?  with three tuners you should have three merged DVB-T sources per channel. Do you have more?

I never had any issues when I only had a satellite tuner configured. It's only since I've added UHF and merged UHF and Sat sources. I am using Sat for SBS, Nine etc so don't want to lose this. I could however un-merge the sat tuner from the freeview channels.

I believe however (correct me if wrong) that the UHF Mheg5 EPG is encrypted and can only do now/next programs requiring some other source for guide data? Sat EPG is DVB standard 7 days.

I have also seen repeatable behaviour tonight. I will probably gather my thoughts and log a support request with Microsoft.... (EDIT: OEM version of win7 No free microsoft support! F@#$%ng B%$^!@ds.)

Tonight at 19:30 Target was due to record with 2 minutes prepadding and 10 minutes post. It was listed in the scheduled recordings, but did not show up as scheduled on the grid EPG. When the recording was due to start media centre stopped with the "Media Centre has encountered a problem and needs to restart". It created a recording with the recording data saying 7:28 - 7:29 pm. However the recording actually contains the first 7 minutes of Target. Recording probably stopping when I stopped the media centre services to recover the guide database.
After stopping the running media centre services and copying the previous guide database folder and files over the newly "recovered" ones I restarted media centre, and after acknowleding the "Your guide data has been recovered please check scheduled recordings" Target immediately started recording from 7:37 to 8:10 pm.




No Scheduled recording info for Target below.



TV3 Tuner Sources


Regards Allen.



441 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #532107 11-Oct-2011 21:17
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mthand: I switched to mheg collection and the recording is rock solid now.

Are you are using a third part app or plugin? can you point me in the right direction please?

Regards Allen. 

7 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #532124 11-Oct-2011 22:03
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Eeek Allen it sounds like you're having major dilemmas. Maybe it's time for a rebuild? :)

Since applying the reg change we've had no fragments... so far so good!

AllenG: 
It was listed in the scheduled recordings, but did not show up as scheduled on the grid EPG.
 

Now this problem I also have. Never found the cause but it frustrates the h3ll out of me! I only put the satellite card in so I could get the 7 day EPG and merge with the DVB-T channels, though I select _only_ the DVB-T channels so recordings are always HD.

AFAIK the MHEG5 guide broadcast on terrestrial is middleware and not supported by Windows. There are tools about to extract the guide to XMLTV and others to convert to MXF (look around on this forum) but I've never had good mileage with conversion.

I think splitting the T and S channels would probably solve the problem but that kinda defeats the purpose - I'm not satisfied with the "now and next" EIT data.

@mthand how are you getting the MHEG guide?

Matt

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