[WXC/VFX] DSL issues and time-frames to resolve

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › [WXC/VFX] DSL issues and time-frames to resolve

coffeebaron

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#15683 3-Sep-2007 11:52

Thought I'd raise this one, as it is an issue that is going get bigger with N-DSL.

I've been having some intermittent DSL disconnects for a while, not major, maybe once or twice per week. However, last Monday (well over a few days preceeding), I started having a lot of DSL disconnects, so I logged a fault with Xnet. Telecom (eventually) did there bit in putting an analyzer on the line, and then I think switching me to a low power profile or something. I'm not sure when this happened, as it was not reported back to me. Nor did this fix anything.

Now that side of things hasn't caused too much of an issue, and I also changed to a different Router that is less susceptible to DSL disconnects (but with a big compromise in performance). The problem now is the original fault has now escalated causing my VFX lines to become unusable, so now I'm without a landline (I don't have access to the PSTN line, I just pay & use the DSL on it).

My main concern here is not so much that I have a fault, but it's more about the time frame it seems to take to get DSL issues resolved. I logged a fault 1 week ago, and now it is worse than when it started. I've dealt with many of these DSL issues in the past and often they seem to take a lot of time and effort to get resolved. Why is this?

DSL issues can be rather annoying, but apart from that they are not usually a major issue to the average end user: I.E. If a user has to wait a few minutes for their Internet to reconnect to receive their email, then annoying yes, but they still get their email. However, add VoIP lines (or other critical apps), then any DSL issue become big issue.

Particularly with N-DSL in mind, what are the expected turn around times & priorities placed on resolving DSL issues?

Look forward to some constructive feedback / discussion on this.

Hope my issue won't take too long to resolve now. I suspect a faulty port so asked Jason (@ Xnet) to see if I can be moved onto a new ISAM port.

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#85096 3-Sep-2007 15:06

coffeebaron:My main concern here is not so much that I have a fault, but it's more about the time frame it seems to take to get DSL issues resolved. I logged a fault 1 week ago, and now it is worse than when it started. I've dealt with many of these DSL issues in the past and often they seem to take a lot of time and effort to get resolved. Why is this?

Very good question, hopefully I can provide a good idea of how these faults are worked through.

When you log a fault it usually ends up going from the Helpdesk through to Telecom Wholesale. Prior to being escalated we have to ensure all the basic troubleshooting has been done, before Telecom Wholesale will look at the fault - isolation of the ADSL connection, modem/router restart/reset, service performance tool, wholesale line test, internal checks etc.

Once the basics are checked and we can't find anything we can fix we escalate to Telecom Wholesale. Depending on the queues and time frame they should respond to the ticket within 1-4 hours. It also seems to depend on who deals with the Ticket at Telecom Wholesale, some reps will try modifications others will put it on an analyser (for 24 hours) and make you wait.

We receive what I'd refer to as a mixed bag of responses from Telecom Wholesale. Sometimes issues are resolved promptly and at other times it's impossible to get a straight answer. If Telecom Wholesale are unable to see any fault they will close the ticket. This results in time wasting, having to re-open another ticket when you confirm the fault is still present.

I've seen tickets get stuck in an endless cycle of being closed and re-logged due to no resolution. When these faults are unable to be resolved they'll end up in my lap and I'll force Telecoms hand by escalating the issue to Wholesale Management. This will usually result in the fault being resolved or an actual reason for the poor quality of service being provided.

All of this is not helped by an extremely poor Wholesale ticketing system. The system to log faults does not timestamp updates, it doesn't even record who's modified the ticket. There are basically two text fields which can be modified via either party. This can end up with some pretty poor communication often meaning a call is required for clarification - more time wasting.

In summary It should only take 1-3 business days (including a tech call out) to resolve a fault but if both parties (your ISP & Telecom Wholesale) are unable to see a fault it can take a much longer period of time. If you log a fault with us we should have a response within 1-4 hours or logging it. If you haven't had a response/call within a 24hour period the team might be busy with callbacks, I would advise calling us for an update.

Hopefully this helps explain the process and shows you what goes on to resolve things.

coffeebaron

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#85130 3-Sep-2007 18:47

Cameronn: If Telecom Wholesale are unable to see any fault they will close the ticket.

Well I guess that kind of sums it up. I do hope they are working on better systems for fault tracking.

One of my concerns here is what will happen when you start getting customers on your upcoming N-DSL / VFX package? I can see problems here where DSL issues will cause major issues with VFX, thus the customer just thinks that VFX is very bad (as they don't really see issues with their Internet - they still get their email OK). They may complain & log a fault, they may just give up and go back to a landline. If they do log a fault, Telecom Wholesale see no issues, fault is closed, customer concludes VFX is no good, goes back to a landline.

Obviously the issue here is not VFX, but rather the "transport - i.e DSL" that it runs on. An average user will see it as a VFX issue.

Something to think about how you will handle this.

Cheers

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maverick

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#85138 3-Sep-2007 19:07

We live and breath these issues every day Fraser, it's not an easy problem to get around but it's one we have and need to deal with, due to the nature of DSL , Different Routers, Firmware , access conditions etc and my personal favorite PEBKAC errors (Problem Exists between Keyboard and Chair , see we do have a sense of humour here at WxC), but we will work hard for our customers that I can promise you.

Cameron and his team are pretty good at the follow up work but it is on our minds with Naked DSL just round the corner and it is something we will need to grow with and to also develop and adapt our procedures around any issues observed.

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Niel

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#85151 3-Sep-2007 20:12

maverick: my personal favorite PEBKAC errors (Problem Exists between Keyboard and Chair , see we do have a sense of humour here at WxC)

What you probably do not know, is that the Afrikaans work "kak" which sounds the same as the end of "PEBKAC" means sh*t. So that acronym is actually much more appropriate than you think!

To add my 2c, I've found that my modem disconnects when there is an interruption in mains power and the UPS kicks in (my living room is on the same circuit as the kitchen with a 10A trip switch, not good when you run the kettle and microwave at the same time...). The noise that comes through the power adapter is enough to disrupt the modem. Other noise on the mains supply can do the same, e.g. when there is lightning in the vicinity. This would be a hard problem to identify and I can understand that Telecom Wholesale might close a ticket if there does not seem to be any real problem. I'm sure they have better things to do than chase ghosts, and might also classify a problem as a ghost when it is not. In this business it is really hard to identify problems when they occur at random, especially if the low cost consumer grade modem at the customer's side does not have top end remote diagnostics capabilities.

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coffeebaron

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#85352 4-Sep-2007 19:00

Day 4 without VFX. Apparently there are no issues with my DSL:

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                   No response from host - 100 | 202 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                   No response from host - 100 | 202 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                   No response from host - 100 | 201 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                   speedtest.xport.co.nz -    6 | 201 | 189 |   49 |   87 | 597 |   68 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )

Hmm?

Oh, apparently there is a problem, I'm too far from the exchange. That's interesting, my broadband and VFX have been just fine for the last 10 months. So who moved, me or the exchange?

Well roll on tomorrow, maybe I'll see a tech then (if they don't close the ticket again).

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KiwiOverseas66

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#85394 5-Sep-2007 03:38

DSL issues can be rather annoying, but apart from that they are not usually a major issue to the average end user: I.E. If a user has to wait a few minutes for their Internet to reconnect to receive their email, then annoying yes, but they still get their email. However, add VoIP lines (or other critical apps), then any DSL issue become big issue.

Particularly with N-DSL in mind, what are the expected turn around times & priorities placed on resolving DSL issues?

Look forward to some constructive feedback / discussion on this.

I agree with you that NDSL is going to be an issue once it becomes more widespread. What you're talking about is the classic difference between a layer 2 and layer 3 service. Before DSL - everything ran on either the PSTN or DSTN - and it was fairly straight forward. The old voice network wasn't flash (and certainly wasn't fast) but it was robust, and very simple to fault find. Same with the DSTN. The old DDS dedicated circuits only had two settings - on and off. If you brought 2 meg then it went at 2 meg or it didn't go at all. Same with frame relay. You could at least get the CIR.

I've worked on a few large (3000 extns plus) nationwide VoIP deployments - and what you describe is fairly standard. People can do without email for half a day, but take the phones down for 5 minutes and they'll be screaming. One of the things we use to push for was full handset to handset management of the network - so every router/ switch/ server/ piece of LAN cable/ and WAN was managed by us. Trying to coordinate between different companies, depts, people - let alone solving the actual tech problem just became too hard otherwise. In the case of NDSL, however, I don't think robustness, simplicity of fault finding, ease of maintenance, operational efficiency were upmost in the minds of the legislators when they made the rules on that one. But that's what people voted for.

Oh...re Telecom faults - yeah, have had to deal with Telecom networks many times (networks are part of wholesale and acutally manage the network). Tried to get in touch with Cameron re this. When a fault is reported - its assigned to a coordinator and logged into a system called Vantive. Every entry in Vantive is recorded by employee ID number - so anytime someone makes an entry - its recorded. This also applies to contractors (downers/ transfield) who have access to the system. The fault coordinator is level 1 - and they have the ability to do some simple fault finding, resolution, etc. Its not until you get to level 2 or 3 (network IP team) that you get to the engineers. These are the guys with the big brains. I got into the habit of bypassing the coordinators and going straight to the engineers. Really pissed off the coordinators. Oh, and I used to instruct the coordinators not to close a fault until I had approved its resolution.

anyway, good luck.

coffeebaron

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#85803 7-Sep-2007 19:41

"This is a distance from exchange issue, there is nothing we can do" "Basically as more people have connected to broadband between you and the exchange, your connection has suffered"

Last Night: (with majorly slow downloads <500Kbps)

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| WinMTR statistics |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

| No response from host - 100 | 201 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |

| speedtest.xport.co.nz - 6 | 200 | 189 | 50 | 78 | 111 | 87 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

Tonight: (with dowloads back to normal 2Mbps)

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                   No response from host - 100 | 501 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                   No response from host - 100 | 501 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                   No response from host - 100 | 500 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                   speedtest.xport.co.nz -    0 | 500 | 500 |   45 |   62 | 260 |   75 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

OK, so they can't fix it, but it now looks fixed?? I'm puzzled. I guess I just got to wait and see if it lasts.

If anyone at Xnet knows what Telecom Wholesale have done here, I'd love to know.

Thanks
Fraser

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Cameronn

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#86056 10-Sep-2007 11:08

coffeebaron:If anyone at Xnet knows what Telecom Wholesale have done here, I'd love to know.

If only we knew what happened - as far as we are aware no work was done on the line. I have seen some people lose ADSL services completely this year, when they had ADSL services for years prior. It all seems to be related to people on the outer fringe of ADSL capability.

Most of the issues are seen due to the ADSL service line rates being unconstrained (late last year) - increased crosstalk and reducing noise margins. Here is the report http://www.telecom-media.co.nz/resources/adsl-performance-report-250706.pdf Alcatel put together to warn the Comcom in regards to the changes, however the changes were made anyway.

Hopefully things hold together at your location.

coffeebaron

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#86194 10-Sep-2007 20:58

Sadly it looks like it has gone down hill again :( Will monitor it over the next few days to see what happens.

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Cameronn

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#86217 11-Sep-2007 08:07

It's looking semi ok this morning.

parameter.actual.bitrate.ds	kb/s	2464.0	608.0
parameter.attainable.bitrate.ds	kb/s	2336.0	800.0
parameter.rel.capacity.occupation.ds	%	100.0	80.0
parameter.attenuation.ds	dB	56.0	32.0
parameter.noise.margin.ds	dB	11.0	17.0

coffeebaron

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#86222 11-Sep-2007 09:06

And it is all good again this morning. The stats are the same on the router as last night, but I had D/L speeds of about 512-800Kbps, and packet loss of 2-6%. D/L speeds this morning 2Mbps and 0% packet loss.

So I'm not sure if this is congestion or a fault at the exchange, but something is still wrong somewhere.

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Cameronn

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#86225 11-Sep-2007 09:18

If you are getting the speed results from speedtest.xport.co.nz it's highly likely to be exchange congestion causing the issue. You don't know any neighbours who are experiencing similar issues?

coffeebaron

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#86312 11-Sep-2007 17:51

I do have a nieghbour that I can do some tests with etc, so will get some more stats as the week progresses.

FYI: current speedtest.xport.co.nz results at 17:45 are, 2.11Mbps / 521Kbps and QoS of 99% (test result#8048).

Thanks

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coffeebaron

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#86917 17-Sep-2007 20:29

Cameronn: If you are getting the speed results from speedtest.xport.co.nz it's highly likely to be exchange congestion causing the issue. You don't know any neighbours who are experiencing similar issues?

Still having issues here, seems to be mainly at peak time. Did some daytime tests with my neighbor and that was fine, will try and get some peak tests some evening this week. My tests tonight:

Speed test statistics
---------------------
Download speed: 1089376 bps
Upload speed: 431264 bps
Quality of service: 45 %
Download test type: socket
Upload test type: socket
Maximum download pause: 250 ms
Average download pause: 12 ms
Minimum round trip time to server: 82 ms
Average round trip time to server: 1082 ms

During the day I get all green, 95-99% QoS. What can be done about this? I can't exactly use my VFX lines during the daytime only.

Three weeks on and well, at least I have part-time VFX lines

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Cameronn

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#87122 19-Sep-2007 09:22

Tough one to call - We'd had a Tech on-site who couldn't find a fault. This either points at congestion & distance together causing the issue - more people using the exchange at night = more crosstalk. It could also point to a faulty port but because it's ok during the day I'd be more inclined to think it's congestion & distance.

This may be one we just can't resolve :( Have you tested with your neighbors are they seeing the same thing?

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