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Topic # 23334 25-Jun-2008 21:30
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Looks like TCL is getting to roll out DOCSIS 3.0 later this year with potential speeds up to 200Mbs. If course that might not be the speed to the customer. I wonder what speed they will offer and even more relevant, how much will they charge for it?  I am not sure I would even pay for Warp at 25Mbs when it comes available in Wellington.

Larry




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  Reply # 140677 26-Jun-2008 12:40
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Source?

Of course, "later this year" translated from TelstraClear-inese into English means "some time in 2012".

And yeah, there's no way they'd give us 200Mbps. I'd say around (but at least) 30Mbps, since at Tel.Con9, Telstraclear apparently said that they'd be delivering VDSL2 @ 30Mbps some time ("TelstraClear was close to launching a new range of services, including VDSL2") - I doubt they'd have DSL faster than any cable plans.

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  Reply # 140699 26-Jun-2008 13:58
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Concidering the current Docsis1/2 modems do 50Mb/s and they only offer 2/4/10 plans (I suspect 25Mb/s ones are on seperate carriers) then upgrading to 200Mb/s modems would see them only offering 30-40Mb/s unless they want to totally stuff contention ratios.

Cyril

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  Reply # 140710 26-Jun-2008 14:41
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Don't get too excited about the speed - the reasons for implimenting DOCSIS 3.0 are performance based. It's far more resilient to RF noise on the network which is one of the biggest problems CATV networks face with RF ingress.

100Mbps internet is just not a realistic option - in Singapore where they have DOCSIS 3 and 100Mbps internet the speeds are only guaranteed with a handful of local sites and even then you have to remember that when you've got a connection that fast that lots of other factors have to come into play as well.




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  Reply # 140752 26-Jun-2008 18:48
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Slightly OT but at the same conference there was talk about peering and TCL's name came up, less than favourably. While Telecom want folks to peer at 29 points in NZ TCL aren't interested at all.

If they did and there was local traffic and content, 50-100Mbs would actually be useful in a way. But sbiddle notes, the limitation will always outside the TCL network.  And anyway who is going to pay for 100Mbs if the pricing for Warp is any guide.

But comparisons with DSL are not quite right. Assuming they get the architecture right, they could deliver 50Mbs to all users over cable but even with LLU and VDSL they can only really guarantee those speeds to a smaller section of the customer base. That is their selling point in Wellington/ChCh




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  Reply # 140756 26-Jun-2008 19:08
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But comparisons with DSL are not quite right. Assuming they get the architecture right, they could deliver 50Mbs to all users over cable but even with LLU and VDSL they can only really guarantee those speeds to a smaller section of the customer base. That is their selling point in Wellington/ChCh


But at what contention ratio, at least with DSL the contention ratio is reserved for the backhaul with known and distinct last leg delivery rate. With Cable, the contention ratio is limited out on the street.

Its swings and round abouts, where you place the bottle neck creates different outcomes, but there is a limitation as to how many carriers you can place within any HFC network, this limit comes far quicker than with a FTTN/ADSL2+ network. YMMV.

I am well aware of the issues either way, in my mind I prefer the FTTN/ADSL model to the HFC one, but thats me.

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  Reply # 140898 27-Jun-2008 14:40
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cyril7: Concidering the current Docsis1/2 modems do 50Mb/s and they only offer 2/4/10 plans (I suspect 25Mb/s ones are on seperate carriers) then upgrading to 200Mb/s modems would see them only offering 30-40Mb/s unless they want to totally stuff contention ratios.

Cyril



Heh, interesting theory. Actually US docsis streams (as opposed to euro docsis ones) are 6Mhz wide and TCL run theres at qam256. Do the math and that comes to 42.88Mbps, take a chunk of that for overheads and the _realistic_ max throughput for a modem is ~38Mbps.

The warpspeed plans are on the same CMTS as everything else, you didn't think it was so expensive just for a good ol price gouge did you? Actually a bunch of the time it took to roll warpspeed out was taken up by developing capacity management tools so we know when it's yaca (yet another cable augment) time.

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  Reply # 140906 27-Jun-2008 14:58
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Heh, interesting theory. Actually US docsis streams (as opposed to euro docsis ones) are 6Mhz wide and TCL run theres at qam256. Do the math and that comes to 42.88Mbps, take a chunk of that for overheads and the _realistic_ max throughput for a modem is ~38Mbps.


Hi, pretty farmilar with the technology and numbers, although only vaguely aware of TCLs setup, I would have thought that NZ being a more European country in respect to Teleco/Broadcast activities and with a 8MHz UHF broadcast band plan TCL would have used EuroDOCSIS which raw/usable 55.62/50 which also runs out to 222.48/200 under DOCSIS3.0

But there you go, you learn something every day.

Cyril

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  Reply # 140909 27-Jun-2008 15:10
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cyril7:
Its swings and round abouts, where you place the bottle neck creates different outcomes, but there is a limitation as to how many carriers you can place within any HFC network, this limit comes far quicker than with a FTTN/ADSL2+ network. YMMV.


HFC networks are split into cachment areas based on a certain number of homes past, TCL call them nodes. Each node is it's own little isolated RF domain. Even being extremely conservitive and based on the sheer amount of RF spectrum there is available you could easily fit 64 downstreams in a node.

That'd be 8 docsis 3.0 bonded downstreams each running at ~304Mbps realistic throughput or ~2.43Gbps per node.

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  Reply # 140913 27-Jun-2008 15:16
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I haven't seen the numbers personally but even being extremely conservitive you could easily fit 64 downstreams in a node.


Really, between analog TV channels, DVB-C muxs, I would have thought 64 is a bit optimistic. But tell me the typical TCL node has how many DOCSIS carriers?

Cyril

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  Reply # 140917 27-Jun-2008 15:28
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cyril7:
I haven't seen the numbers personally but even being extremely conservitive you could easily fit 64 downstreams in a node.


Really, between analog TV channels, DVB-C muxs, I would have thought 64 is a bit optimistic. But tell me the typical TCL node has how many DOCSIS carriers?

Cyril


Nah, 64 is easy, especially considering analogue can't hang around forever, no one even makes analogue decoders anymore. :)

It's irrelevant how many downstreams there are out there right now, when docsis 3.0 happens there will be more of them.



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  Reply # 140950 27-Jun-2008 17:31
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In conversations with TCL it seems analogue has a way to go before being discontinued.  Likely to be another year or so. Once it's gone then all those channels free up for other things.

Now I also heard (from those who should know) that TCL play to roll out a HD box this year. Not sure of the bandwidth requirements for a HD channel but I bet it's less than 6Mhz required for an analogue channel




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  Reply # 144549 8-Jul-2008 12:30
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cyril7: Concidering the current Docsis1/2 modems do 50Mb/s and they only offer 2/4/10 plans (I suspect 25Mb/s ones are on seperate carriers) then upgrading to 200Mb/s modems would see them only offering 30-40Mb/s unless they want to totally stuff contention ratios.

Cyril


I was under the impression that all DOCSIS 1.0 modems had been replaced by 2.0 ones? They changed mine about a year ago (Motorola SB4100>>>SB5101)

Isn't DOCSIS 2.0 the reason why they upgraded mine? seems silly to upgrade twice in less than 18 months.

EDIT: They changed my modem last October.





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