ZOMG we need those anti-terror surveillance laws right now!

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#1198248 16-Dec-2014 08:52

He was obviously talking about a common crime. A terrorism specific act is very different.

He was giving an example... Crime will shake people and affect lives. Doesn't automatically make all of them "terrorism".

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#1198249 16-Dec-2014 08:53

I'm bloody glad that he's dead now. Shame that two innocents died though.

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Fred99

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#1198259 16-Dec-2014 09:15

DarthKermit: I'm bloody glad that he's dead now.

I'm not - for several reasons:
Other nutters will see / claim him as a martyr. Yes - this is crazy - but they are nutters.
It was an easy way out and probably exactly what he wanted/expected - incarceration for life would have fit the crime better.
For future hostage situations, "terrorist" or not, greater belief by the perpetrator that they won't get out of it alive isn't a good thing for the chances for the innocent victims being held captive.

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#1198276 16-Dec-2014 09:19

Mean while innocent lives have been shattered.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SaltyNZ

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#1198277 16-Dec-2014 09:21

Fred99:
It was an easy way out and probably exactly what he wanted/expected - incarceration for life would have fit the crime better.

Exactly. Life in prison spent doing something both good for the community and humiliating for him. The exact opposite of a martyr.

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heylinb4nz

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#1198286 16-Dec-2014 09:34

KiwiNZ:
freitasm: Above ^^^^^^

People are confusing a criminal with a terrorist mastermind.

Its easy to say it was not terror from safely behind can urban screen. Ask those that were there if it was terror.

Honestly..... GZ.......

I had some people on my property at night 3 weeks ago, was pretty scared, mabey this was terror as well ? therefore a terrorist event. If terrorism is making people scared then the media are the biggest terrorists of all.

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heylinb4nz

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#1198289 16-Dec-2014 09:40

One had to wonder why they used multiple volleys of burst fire in a room filled with hostages, gotta wonder if the dead persons and injured are victims of police gunfire, guess we will have to wait and see what the police media machine spin up.

And what was with the guy fumbling for stun grenades well after they had made entry ?

Easy to judge behind keyboard, I know I know. Still have to wonder though.

itxtme

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#1198292 16-Dec-2014 09:42

One had to wonder why they used multiple volleys of burst fire in a room filled with hostages, gotta wonder if the dead persons and injured are victims of police gunfire, guess we will have to wait and see what the police media machine spin up.

Hadn't considered that, you may well be right!

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#1198295 16-Dec-2014 09:46

SaltyNZ: According to these guys, terrorism deaths are as high as 10 people a year. Well... in some places. Not here. Actually, here there haven't been any. But still: 10 people a year, in places far far away. John Key, get right on that please. I'm so very frightened.

But smoking and alcohol are still legal...and they keep not funding health care adequately.

There always seems to be more money available for scary things that hurt almost no one, but give them more power.....while people who are actually dying for lack of medical care funding for heart or cancer care can just get busy and die.

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Linuxluver

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#1198297 16-Dec-2014 09:48

heylinb4nz: One had to wonder why they used multiple volleys of burst fire in a room filled with hostages, gotta wonder if the dead persons and injured are victims of police gunfire, guess we will have to wait and see what the police media machine spin up.

And what was with the guy fumbling for stun grenades well after they had made entry ?

Easy to judge behind keyboard, I know I know. Still have to wonder though.

Hard to know even if one was there. No idea how much ammo or opportunity the perpetrator had....and if the police did mess up we likely won't know there was an error anyway. It wouldn't fit the required narrative for more security laws to have the police killing more people than the terrorists.

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Linuxluver

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#1198302 16-Dec-2014 09:53

Fred99:
freitasm: Stop the presses! No need for terror laws!

The guy in Sydney was a murdered who earlier pleaded guilt of hleping his girlfriend kill a woman, stabbing her 18 times and setting her on fire. He was on bail. He was also accused of sexual assault. He was on bail.

HE WAS ON BAIL.

He was known to the police and the guy was on bail. Not because of lack of terror laws but because current laws let crazy people like him on the streets.

You know, like that New Zealand murderer who got to go out of jail for a weekend and flee the country on a valid passport.

We don't need "terror laws for that".

Yes, but not to forget that he had come to Australia as a refugee - even if that was a long time ago.
This will be fuel for Australian (and probably NZ) xenophobes.

It isn't xenophobia to respond to media who emphasise the ethnicity of perpetrators. Maori have been stigmatised for decades for the same reasons....many of the perps are maori.

People do this all the time. Using the word "Xenophobia" is just ignoring the fact people will be cautious around memebrs of ANY group who are identified with violence / death.

Black Power / Mongrel Mob / Headhunters, anyone?

It isn't xenophobia. It's prudent caution.

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heylinb4nz

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#1198303 16-Dec-2014 09:53

Linuxluver:
SaltyNZ: According to these guys, terrorism deaths are as high as 10 people a year. Well... in some places. Not here. Actually, here there haven't been any. But still: 10 people a year, in places far far away. John Key, get right on that please. I'm so very frightened.

But smoking and alcohol are still legal...and they keep not funding health care adequately.

There always seems to be more money available for scary things that hurt almost no one, but give them more power.....while people who are actually dying for lack of medical care funding for heart or cancer care can just get busy and die.

Interesting fact after the port arthur massacre and ensuing draconian gun legislation \ buy back scheme that supposedly saves 4 lives per year, it works out to be something like $320 million AUD per person saved, imagine that spen ton healthcare or god forbid safer roads....how many people could they help ? guns are far more scary though (both to the sheeple who want to "feel" safe, and the government who want to be the ones holding the weapons)

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#1198304 16-Dec-2014 09:57

freitasm: If it was a white guy in the store some wouldn't be calling "terrorism".

If he was robbing a bank would it be terrorism? He killed his ex wife. Was it terrorism?

People are using this word...

If he demanded an ISIS flag and claimed to have planted 4 bombs in central Sydney, people might suspect that he was a terrorist.

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freitasm

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#1198309 16-Dec-2014 10:04

Or a crazy person. We don't know yet. Local authorities have been quoted saying he had no links to known terrorist groups.

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Fred99

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#1198314 16-Dec-2014 10:39

Linuxluver:
Fred99:
freitasm: Stop the presses! No need for terror laws!

The guy in Sydney was a murdered who earlier pleaded guilt of hleping his girlfriend kill a woman, stabbing her 18 times and setting her on fire. He was on bail. He was also accused of sexual assault. He was on bail.

HE WAS ON BAIL.

He was known to the police and the guy was on bail. Not because of lack of terror laws but because current laws let crazy people like him on the streets.

You know, like that New Zealand murderer who got to go out of jail for a weekend and flee the country on a valid passport.

We don't need "terror laws for that".

Yes, but not to forget that he had come to Australia as a refugee - even if that was a long time ago.
This will be fuel for Australian (and probably NZ) xenophobes.

It isn't xenophobia to respond to media who emphasise the ethnicity of perpetrators. Maori have been stigmatised for decades for the same reasons....many of the perps are maori.

People do this all the time. Using the word "Xenophobia" is just ignoring the fact people will be cautious around memebrs of ANY group who are identified with violence / death.

Black Power / Mongrel Mob / Headhunters, anyone?

It isn't xenophobia. It's prudent caution.

Well in the case of Maori in New Zealand, the word "xenophobia" shouldn't really apply, as Maori certainly aren't "foreign" or "strange" in this country.

The whole issue of media stereotyping based on ethnicity (and gender, and age) seems to be something where there has been improvement. But the disproportionate incidence of some crime by some ethnic groups is hard to ignore - and unless media didn't print names or photos, it seems unavoidable. It's a problem.

So is there evidence of anything to support the need for caution around members of "other" (ethnic) groups who are often subject to xenophobic attitudes? I doubt it here (NZ), I'd expect that most "non European" immigrants in NZ are well under-represented in just about every negative statistic there is.

Gangs are another story. There's organised crime basically everywhere. The particular nature of some of our gangs is perhaps symptomatic of other problems.

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