Unlimited sick leave

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#2897672 6-Apr-2022 14:27

blackjack17:

Most policies with unlimited still allow the employer to request a medical certificate. Less than 3 days at the employer's cost, 3 or more at the employee's expense.

Without looking it up to confirm, I'm pretty sure that's the law.

So ... I ask for a Dr's certificate at company's expense, they can't get an appointment for a few days. By then they are feeling better and these days it's probably a phone consult anyway. They describe their alleged symptoms of three days ago to the Doc and get a cert. Serial absentees know all the tricks.... if only they applied themselves with equal fervour and resourcefulness to working.

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#2897675 6-Apr-2022 14:30

Previous employer had unlimited sick leave.

Culture dictated that you'd be unlikely to take that. Or much.

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#2897694 6-Apr-2022 15:00

MikeAqua:

Or you happen to run into them at cafe when they are sick.

I take it that you don't agree to the use of sick leave for mental health?

Those particular people would take 50 days a year, if it was unlimited.

That wasn't my experience.

elpenguino

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#2897704 6-Apr-2022 15:32

MikeAqua:

blackjack17:

Most policies with unlimited still allow the employer to request a medical certificate. Less than 3 days at the employer's cost, 3 or more at the employee's expense.

Without looking it up to confirm, I'm pretty sure that's the law.

So ... I ask for a Dr's certificate at company's expense, they can't get an appointment for a few days. By then they are feeling better and these days it's probably a phone consult anyway. They describe their alleged symptoms of three days ago to the Doc and get a cert. Serial absentees know all the tricks.... if only they applied themselves with equal fervour and resourcefulness to working.

They are. They're working the system :-)

But seriously, I see there's been a shift in our HR department to, in essence, make people happy to come to work for more reasons than the need for money alone.

What can you do to try more carrot and less stick?

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invisibleman18

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#2897717 6-Apr-2022 16:06

Just looked ours up on the intranet (large Government department) and it's 11 days a year for the first 2 years and 15 days per year after that. And the standard proof can be requested at their expense if less than 3 days or your own if 3 consecutive days. Have personally only had to provide a doctor's cert once when I suffered a concussion during a weekend and doctor wrote me off work for a week.

Regarding the earlier comment on ACC funding taxis which is a going a little off topic - I ruptured my achilles playing sport a couple of years ago and was in a cast and on crutches. ACC paid for taxis to and from work for 4 weeks (Lower Hutt to Wellington CBD). Although the journey took a bit longer through traffic than getting the train it was an absolute godsend being able to go door to door rather than have to get from the train station to the office. I was also able to get a knee scooter, shower stool and wooden kitchen trolley (so I could take food/drink from the kitchen at home as couldn't carry anything with crutches). Found ACC really good and easy to deal with. It was thanks to my wife being a health worker that I knew I could ask for any of that stuff. I imagine a lot of people don't ask for anything as don't realise you can get it and assume you can just get some subsidised treatment (ie, physio). This was just before WFH became a thing. A couple of months later and I'd have not had to worry about getting to and from the office.

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#2897723 6-Apr-2022 16:40

elpenguino:

Where an employer can really help with unlimited sick leave is for serious illness. We all get a cold and have a few days off now and then but if you get cancer , then what?

Many years ago when I was based in Australia, a former employer of mine crowd sourced sick leave to support staff who were diagnosed with long term illnesses. At the end of the year if you had more than 10 days of sick leave available you could voluntarily donate up to 5 days to a central pool which would then be used to support team members with long term illnesses. The administration of the central pool was owned by a staff council so not senior management.

It worked really well and I personally new two people who unfortunately needed to call on that pool of leave and it was honestly a life saver in their circumstances.

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#2897724 6-Apr-2022 16:42

deadlyllama:
HR - you've used more sick leave than you are entitled to!

"I've used up all my sick leave so I'm calling in dead instead".

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#2897726 6-Apr-2022 16:52

MikeAqua:
Or you happen to run into them at cafe when they are sick.

That happened to a friend of mine, a manager at a government organisation (she works part-time, this was a non-work day). The person in the cafe looked suitably sheepish, there was no need to say anything further about it.

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#2897729 6-Apr-2022 17:02

Senecio:

Many years ago when I was based in Australia, a former employer of mine crowd sourced sick leave to support staff who were diagnosed with long term illnesses. At the end of the year if you had more than 10 days of sick leave available you could voluntarily donate up to 5 days to a central pool which would then be used to support team members with long term illnesses. The administration of the central pool was owned by a staff council so not senior management.

It worked really well and I personally new two people who unfortunately needed to call on that pool of leave and it was honestly a life saver in their circumstances.

This is supposed to be an uplifting story, I'm sure. But to me it more reads like some post apocalyptic thing where everybody gets on GoFundMe instead of having support systems that allow life to happen to humans and not have them get utterly crushed the moment something goes even remotely wrong.

Julie has cancer. We're going to fire Julie unless everyone pitches in a few day of their sick leave. Then once that runs out we're gonna fire Julie anyway.

blackjack17

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#2897733 6-Apr-2022 17:16

mkissin:

Senecio:

Many years ago when I was based in Australia, a former employer of mine crowd sourced sick leave to support staff who were diagnosed with long term illnesses. At the end of the year if you had more than 10 days of sick leave available you could voluntarily donate up to 5 days to a central pool which would then be used to support team members with long term illnesses. The administration of the central pool was owned by a staff council so not senior management.

It worked really well and I personally new two people who unfortunately needed to call on that pool of leave and it was honestly a life saver in their circumstances.

This is supposed to be an uplifting story, I'm sure. But to me it more reads like some post apocalyptic thing where everybody gets on GoFundMe instead of having support systems that allow life to happen to humans and not have them get utterly crushed the moment something goes even remotely wrong.

Julie has cancer. We're going to fire Julie unless everyone pitches in a few day of their sick leave. Then once that runs out we're gonna fire Julie anyway.

I hate the idea of donating sick leave, why can't the company support the staff who are making them money, instead of staff giving up sick leave which they might need themselves.

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elpenguino

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#2897753 6-Apr-2022 17:36

blackjack17:

mkissin:

This is supposed to be an uplifting story, I'm sure. But to me it more reads like some post apocalyptic thing where everybody gets on GoFundMe instead of having support systems that allow life to happen to humans and not have them get utterly crushed the moment something goes even remotely wrong.

Julie has cancer. We're going to fire Julie unless everyone pitches in a few day of their sick leave. Then once that runs out we're gonna fire Julie anyway.

I hate the idea of donating sick leave, why can't the company support the staff who are making them money, instead of staff giving up sick leave which they might need themselves.

Agreed, instead of making it a case of "let's see if your colleagues feel like it" it could be "the company will look after you when you need it".

Knowing that policy exists and seeing it in action is the kind of thing that builds employee loyalty.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2897756 6-Apr-2022 17:39

I used to work at a University. We had unlimited leave. No one abused it because we knew it was a privilege and we actually took it only as required. It was good taking time off for an operation and didn’t have to worry about the leave for my 2 week recovery.

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#2897769 6-Apr-2022 18:53

It's somewhat industry dependent. I worked in primary industry for a little while, it was something like 10% of staff would be on sick leave any one day at the start of the season when they had sick leave owing.

antonknee

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#2897778 6-Apr-2022 19:19

Given the apparent attitude of one poster who would appear to be management of some kind in this thread, I'm frankly entirely unsurprised that person appears to have an issue with absenteeism amongst their team.

I'd be very concerned with how access to discretionary leave (referring to the policy says x days but managers can give more if they think it's appropriate) as described is managed - you need to be incredibly careful this is not being applied in a discriminatory manner or open to abuse. I speak from experience having seen how badly wrong that can go for a former employer.

Our sick leave is not unlimited, but we do get 30 days available immediately, and 30 new days on every anniversary, and it banks, so it may as well be.

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#2897815 6-Apr-2022 20:30

Not since I left the U.K., where almost all white collar jobs have it.

They don’t get wound up with this weird thing where your payslips count sick leave. If you’re sick, you just get paid like normal. Only HR need to keep records.

Five days you self certify. More than that you need a doctor to sign you off.

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