GCSB Protest March

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#873154 7-Aug-2013 12:45

"They are the lowest form of life imaginable. If they think they are going to persuade anyone to their point of view with these tactics, they're frankly deluded."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9009941/Dunne-lashes-back-at-noisy-protesters

Mr Dunne,

With all due respect, I spend some time in the weekend sending a very polite email to 175 MPs on a list provided here.

I've had half a dozen acknowledgements.

You people simply don't listen until people rise up and shout in the streets.

You people shout in the streets at us to vote for you (yes last election there were endless cars driving my neighborhood with loud hailers) but when it comes time for you to listen to what we've got to say then you cry foul.

Perhaps if you went home and actually faced these people for a discussion then your wife and neighbours wouldn't have to be faced with this.

D

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SaltyNZ

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#873165 7-Aug-2013 13:04

Klipspringer: As far as I understand, The Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Bill is the thing that everybody is up in arms about. It replaces the current Telecommunications (Interception Capability) Act of 2004.

The Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Bill accompanies the current GCSB bill.

Why are people marching against the GCSB bill? Surely this is proof enough that half the people marching have no idea what they are really marching for????

Anybody know when there is a march against the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Bill? Or have I missed it?

Noting that I say this in my own private capacity, not on behalf of my employer, I am also not very happy about the changes in the TICS bill, which give the GCSB effective control over nearly every aspect of telco design. This probably affects me more than you, as a design engineer at a telco, but it should concern you too at least a little, because telcos could be forced to adopt architectures that make it particularly easy to hoover up everything ala the GCSB bill. Typically this will be very expensive, which is a cost that they would pass on to you.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Klipspringer

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#873166 7-Aug-2013 13:06

DonGould:
This could be fixed by just putting up a bunch of publicly visible camera that we can all log on to.

That's what we're doing in our neighborhood. We can all look at the cameras and if any of us sees a problem when we sort it out.

Really useful to see when trucks turn up to deliver stuff, check if the people we want to meet are there, lots and lots of benefits.

WoW thats spying taking up to a whole new level. In fact, its spying and sharing it with the entire neighboorhood. pffffttt

You sure you opposed to this new bill?

DonGould: Mr Dunne, With all due respect, I spend some time in the weekend sending a very polite email to 17MPs on a list provided here. I've had half a dozen acknowledgements. You people simply don't listen until people rise up and shout in the streets. You people shout in the streets at us to vote for you (yes last election there were endless cars driving my neighborhood with loud hailers) but when it comes time for you to listen to what we've got to say then you cry foul. Perhaps if you went home and actually faced these people for a discussion then your wife and neighbours wouldn't have to be faced with this. D

So intimidation is the answer?

I always find it odd that those opposed to a wrong, end up supporting another wrong. The hacking of the National Party website is another example (its for a good cause)!

If these people want to be heard they should not go around doing this type of thing. It just ends up building more support for the bill.

turnin

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#873168 7-Aug-2013 13:06

DonGould: "They are the lowest form of life imaginable. If they think they are going to persuade anyone to their point of view with these tactics, they're frankly deluded."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9009941/Dunne-lashes-back-at-noisy-protesters

Mr Dunne,

With all due respect, I spend some time in the weekend sending a very polite email to 175 MPs on a list provided here.

I've had half a dozen acknowledgements.

You people simply don't listen until people rise up and shout in the streets.

You people shout in the streets at us to vote for you (yes last election there were endless cars driving my neighborhood with loud hailers) but when it comes time for you to listen to what we've got to say then you cry foul.

Perhaps if you went home and actually faced these people for a discussion then your wife and neighbours wouldn't have to be faced with this.

D

Totally Agree,
people wonder where the them vs us mentality comes from,
Dunnes emails are leaked and become a "privacy matter" just like Keys Lunch with Banks , Breaches of Privacy. Tolerable, Police raids as a result on TVNZ suggest they were not.
yet now its the other way around, and it's fine, anyone with a problem with the bill is just a misinformed nutjob.
Interesting world

Klipspringer

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#873169 7-Aug-2013 13:08

SaltyNZ:
Noting that I say this in my own private capacity, not on behalf of my employer, I am also not very happy about the changes in the TICS bill, which give the GCSB effective control over nearly every aspect of telco design. This probably affects me more than you, as a design engineer at a telco, but it should concern you too at least a little, because telcos could be forced to adopt architectures that make it particularly easy to hoover up everything ala the GCSB bill. Typically this will be very expensive, which is a cost that they would pass on to you.

Its going to create a few nice jobs. Especially those in the IT sector. Some massive projects.

Watch this space.

MikeB4

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#873170 7-Aug-2013 13:10

DonGould:
freitasm: You rather trade an entire nation's privacy right for police finding some idiot who turned chairs upside down?

That's a high price to pay to extend something the police is already empowered to do.

100% agree with you MF.

You lot don't even live here, I do. To me that mess is just a bunch of chairs with bugger all meaning and value.

I didn't even know what it was until my wife explained because she'd read about it in the paper.

I think you're totally right that we don't change the law to disrespect everyone's privacy just because some twat disrespected a bunch of chairs that were put there as a memorial for a bunch of other people.

My brother got killed last year. He was on a bike. You don't see me running around saying that we should be putting spy equipment in every car and on every road because on of the horses on the farm did a dump on the bit of grass that we spread some ashes.... ya, even writing that I do realise just how stupid my analogy sounds.

To me stupid is what this is about. It's a total over reaction to suggest we spy on the whole country because some idiot deface a memorial.

Let's just throw my phone number on a sign down there and if someone sees the chairs turned over, I'm not far away, let them call me and I'll go help stand them back up again. 03 348 7235.

D

what is that saying about assumptions?

You are assuming much regarding who was affected and how.

Your trivialisation of a tragedy is disgraceful and distasteful.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Woolly

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#873171 7-Aug-2013 13:13

How about a Multi Spying Agencies Transparency and Accountability Bill.

Independent Oversight - Who's watching the watchers, publicly listed and full disclosure of financial interests and perversions:)?
Transparency - How many Persons of Interest are being watched at anyone time, What and how much is being sifted etc, why are they being spied on?
Accountability - Responsible for ones actions.
Audits - The money is going where it's supposed to.
Whistle blower protection
Financial disclosure - Full costings.
Ethics Officer - Ensure the bill of rights.
Disclosure of Conflicts of interest - officers spying on their next door neighbors wife :).

SaltyNZ

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#873173 7-Aug-2013 13:19

Klipspringer:

Watch this space.

I'm not an NZ citizen; bugger. Maybe I should apply to the DSD instead. :-D

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

DonGould

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#873190 7-Aug-2013 13:47

SaltyNZ:
Klipspringer: As far as I understand, The Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Bill is the thing that everybody is up in arms about. It replaces the current Telecommunications (Interception Capability) Act of 2004.

The Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Bill accompanies the current GCSB bill.

Why are people marching against the GCSB bill? Surely this is proof enough that half the people marching have no idea what they are really marching for????

Anybody know when there is a march against the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Bill? Or have I missed it?

Noting that I say this in my own private capacity, not on behalf of my employer, I am also not very happy about the changes in the TICS bill, which give the GCSB effective control over nearly every aspect of telco design. This probably affects me more than you, as a design engineer at a telco, but it should concern you too at least a little, because telcos could be forced to adopt architectures that make it particularly easy to hoover up everything ala the GCSB bill. Typically this will be very expensive, which is a cost that they would pass on to you.

Interestingly that could play more than one way Salty.

I see the value in having some really well qualified and capable people being involved in the design process in my small enterprise.

But are we really likely to see that or are we more likely to see consultants to government who really have no real idea what they're doing and have them waste hours and hours of our time to the point of distraction?

Personally I already run design ideas across lots of people in the global community.

Why can't the government do the same?

If the government want a hand in this stuff then what's stopping them joining all the same discussion lists I'm on and speaking up?

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DonGould

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#873198 7-Aug-2013 13:54

Sorry guys, this computer seems to have gone mad!!!!

I seem to have some how posted the same post 3 or 4 times.

KiwiNZ that was not for effect at all and I do appologise.

Mods: would someone mind cleaning up this little mess? :)

Think I might go build something next door... this PC clearly doesn't like me this afternoon.

KiwiNZ: Your trivialisation of a tragedy is disgraceful and distasteful.

Sorry KiwiNZ but I just find that comment really insulting.

I've driven past that mess, and it does look like a big bloody mess.

I'm not the one who made is trivial.

It was a poorly thought out idea that needs to be cleaned up and taken away in my view.

If we're going to erect memorials then let's put up stuff that actually carries a message about what happened and doesn't look like some random church group where to lazy to pack up their chiars... which is exactly what I thought when I first saw it.

Frankly I think it's insulting to the folk who died that the memorial for their passing is a bunch of chairs throw about the place that look this way, that then lead to people who don't know what it is to think it's what I thought it was.

There's another memorial in Latimer Square (iirc) which actually looks like a memorial and was very well publisised.

But let's not use the defacement of this ramdom art as an excuse to give the police and GCSB more power!

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

DonGould

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#873206 7-Aug-2013 14:03

Klipspringer:
DonGould:
This could be fixed by just putting up a bunch of publicly visible camera that we can all log on to.

That's what we're doing in our neighborhood. We can all look at the cameras and if any of us sees a problem when we sort it out.

Really useful to see when trucks turn up to deliver stuff, check if the people we want to meet are there, lots and lots of benefits.

WoW thats spying taking up to a whole new level. In fact, its spying and sharing it with the entire neighboorhood. pffffttt

You sure you opposed to this new bill?

DonGould: Mr Dunne, With all due respect, I spend some time in the weekend sending a very polite email to 17MPs on a list provided here. I've had half a dozen acknowledgements. You people simply don't listen until people rise up and shout in the streets. You people shout in the streets at us to vote for you (yes last election there were endless cars driving my neighborhood with loud hailers) but when it comes time for you to listen to what we've got to say then you cry foul. Perhaps if you went home and actually faced these people for a discussion then your wife and neighbours wouldn't have to be faced with this. D

So intimidation is the answer?

I always find it odd that those opposed to a wrong, end up supporting another wrong. The hacking of the National Party website is another example (its for a good cause)!

If these people want to be heard they should not go around doing this type of thing. It just ends up building more support for the bill.

I'm opposed to tax payer funded police and GCSB groups getting my tax money for this stuff, that's what I'm really opposed to.

When I call up the council to move some cars that are blocking my drive, then I call the police because the council say it's their job, then they just say it's the councils job... I get to the point where I just don't want to give any of them money.

When my car gets stolen from right outside my house, you bet your shorts I wana put up a camera and keep an eye on my stuff and give anyone around the world who wants to help watch, access.

As for intimidation, I find it very intimidating that a group of guys in Wellington can just spy on everything I do on the net without me knowing and then want more power to do it.

No, that's not the answer at all!!!

But would have these protesters even been intimidating if Mr Dunne had just shown up at his home to talk to them?!

I wasn't intimidated when my local MP (hopeful) turned up at my place for a chat, and he came with mates, a caravan, 2 cars, one with big speakers on it.

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turnin

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#873372 7-Aug-2013 17:49

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rlo0uu

Tormail is hacked, PGP is crackable, everything is copied for analysis and decryption at a latter date.
So how does one communicate a business idea without opening it to govenments, their employees and contractors ?
encripted voice communications ( real time randomised keys) over landlines perhaps?
Should we take the concept of business and knock that on the head too.
Perhaps good news for AirNZ and NZ Post (Unless they copy the US and scan each letter)
Honestly, I am thinking this might well spell the end of the net for business communications.
The net ran well, unmanaged, without a business plan for many many years, then suddenly...Oh well, thank goodness there will be absolutely no terrorism.

PaulBags

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#873385 7-Aug-2013 18:16

Klipspringer:
freitasm: So put better security at the memorial, not in everyone else's place.

And how do you propose they impliment that security? By not searching "everybody's" bags? By not putting up cameras which record everybody entering/exiting the memorial? Please explain this security you refering to?

Security = searching people and/or bags = Where's my privacy????

Anybody that goes to the memorial does not have the right to total privacy.

I'd like to see you put a wheelchair in your purse.

JimmyH

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#873392 7-Aug-2013 18:43

KiwiNZ: If the GCSB Bill can help find scum like this then pass it now

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9010167/Chairs-vandalism-sickening

1. How would implementing intrusive surveillance of the entire population prevent a few mindless yahoos from doing something silly like this, on a whim, after a few beers too many?

2. Even if it would (and it wouldn't!) the remedy would be vastly disproportionate to the problem.

JimmyH

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#873405 7-Aug-2013 18:52

Klipspringer:
freitasm:
Exactly as I said: better security at the memorial. Be it cameras, etc. You have no expectation of privacy in public.

Using this vandalism as support for a carte blanche for the GCSB to have powers over EVERYONE is way beyond the benefits proposed.

The internet is a public place.

No, actually it isn't.

Some parts of it are arguably public, like posting an opinion on a publicly searchable forum such as this one. The rest aren't.

Emails - say my bank statements, or between me and a doctor about a relatives medical condition - definitely aren't. Neither are activities such as accessing my employers email system using webmail, or logging onto the bank's site to check my balance. All of these are clearly private. And, just like steaming my letters open or tapping my telephone, without reasonable cause sufficient to convince a judge to issue a warrant the State should have no business intercepting or reading any of these.

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